July 2017 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

Fw: Fw: Info
by Natalie Golovin 10 Mar '26

10 Mar '26

Mark: You and your compatriots on P2P view the world from revisionism. Go ahead and keep looking through your microscope-provided by your "teachers." Or take the time and read some very old documented evidence available at a library near you= but you may need to stay there awhile on microfiche. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Janssen Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:39 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Info On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Natalie Golovin <10natalie(a)cox.net> wrote: > The European Tribes treated the Natives no worse than they treated each > other. Whoa. You should really stop talking. You have NO idea what you're talking about. How about forced acculturation, not allowing them to speak their own language (which hold the record of their own history), confined them under threat of violent force into reservations, among other things. But, really, that's probably not even the worst of it -- the worst of it is that for reasons they couldn't ever understand is why you were doing all of these cruel things when they were willing to share it it all with you. Why, when they handed out their hand to be friends, you chopped it off. Remember, they're the ones who gave us Thanksgiving which is still "celebrated" in this nation today. Read the reports made of making first contact with the Native peoples here. You really should read up before propagating the attitudes of conquest. Sorry.... marcos _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

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Fwd: 'Poison Papers' Snapshot: HOJO Transcript Illustrates EPA Collusion With Chemical Industry
by Michel Bauwens 28 Jul '17

28 Jul '17

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jonathan Latham <jrlatham(a)bioscienceresource.org> Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 8:42 PM Subject: 'Poison Papers' Snapshot: HOJO Transcript Illustrates EPA Collusion With Chemical Industry To: bsR-PROJECT-ELIST1(a)gn.apc.org Dear Friends and Colleagues Published in *Independent Science News* and *Exposed by CMD* on July 27th, 2017: *'Poison Papers' Snapshot: HOJO Transcript Illustrates EPA Collusion With Chemical Industry* by Rebekah Wilce of the Center for Media and Democracy. https://www.independentsciencenews.org/health/poison-papers-snapshot- hojo-transcript-illustrates-epa-collusion-with-chemical-industry/ *Synopsis:* This is the first story based on the Poison Papers <https://www.poisonpapers.org/>, a project of *Independent Science News* and the Center for Media and Democracy. The Papers are a 20,000 document trove of industry and regulatory papers collected primarily by Carol Van Strum and just published by us on DocumentCloud. In 1978, EPA, faced with evidence of rampant fraud over chemical safety testing at the largest independent lab in the country, had a secret meeting with the chemical industry. The newly-revealed transcript of that meeting shows how EPA endangered the public by covering up this scandal to protect chemicals that are still on the market today. Please share if you find this story valuable. Best wishes Jonathan Jonathan Latham, PhD Executive Director The Bioscience Resource Project Ithaca, NY 14850 USA www.independentsciencenews.org and www.bioscienceresource.org jrlatham(a)bioscienceresource.org Skype: jonathanlatham2 Tel: 1-607-319-0279 “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”—Edward Bernays, Propaganda _______________________________________________ BSR-project-elist1 mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/bsr-project- elist1 To unsubscribe, email bsr-project-elist1-unsubscribe(a)gn.apc.org -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: The Poison Papers Expose Decades of Collusion between Industry and Regulators over Hazardous Pesticides and Other Chemicals
by Michel Bauwens 27 Jul '17

27 Jul '17

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jonathan Latham <jrlatham(a)bioscienceresource.org> Date: Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 7:32 AM Subject: The Poison Papers Expose Decades of Collusion between Industry and Regulators over Hazardous Pesticides and Other Chemicals To: bsr-PROJECT-ELIST1(a)gn.apc.org *Center for Media and DemocracyFor Immediate Release*: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 *Contact: *Dr. Jonathan Latham, jrlatham(a)bioscienceresource.org <jonathan(a)bioscience.org>, (607) 319-0279 Cara Newlon, cara.newlon(a)berlinrosen.com, (703) 899 3206 Carol Van Strum, cvstrum(a)gmail.com *The Poison Papers Expose Decades of Collusion between Industry and Regulators over Hazardous Pesticides and Other Chemicals* *Watchdog Groups Digitize and Release 20,000 Documents* *for Public Review* The Bioscience Resource Project and the Center for Media and Democracy today are releasing a trove of rediscovered and newly digitized chemical industry and regulatory agency documents stretching back to the 1920s. The documents are available at PoisonPapers.org <https://www.poisonpapers.org/> . Together, the papers show that both industry and regulators understood the extraordinary toxicity of many chemical products and worked together to conceal this information from the public and the press. These papers will transform our understanding of the hazards posed by certain chemicals on the market and the fraudulence of some of the regulatory processes relied upon to protect human health and the environment. "These documents represent a tremendous trove of previously hidden or lost evidence on chemical regulatory activity and chemical safety. What is most striking about these documents is their heavy focus on the activities of regulators. Time and time again regulators went to the extreme lengths of setting up secret committees, deceiving the media and the public, and covering up evidence of human exposure and human harm. These secret activities extended and increased human exposure to chemicals they knew to be toxic," said *Dr. Jonathan Latham, Executive Director of the Bioscience Resource Project*. The Poison Papers are a compilation of over 20,000 documents obtained from federal agencies and chemical manufacturers via open records requests and public interest litigation. They include scientific studies and summaries of studies, internal memos and reports, meeting minutes, strategic discussions, and sworn testimonies. The majority of these documents have been scanned and digitized for the first time and represent nearly three tons of material. The regulatory agency sources of these documents include: the EPA, the USDA Forest Service, the FDA, the Veterans Administration, and the Department of Defense. Chemical manufacturers referenced in the documents include: Dow, Monsanto, DuPont, and Union Carbide, as well as many smaller manufacturers and the commercial testing companies who worked for them. The Poison Papers catalogue the secret concerns of industry and regulators over the hazards of pesticides and other chemicals and their efforts to conceal those concerns. Most of the Poison Papers were collected by author and activist Carol Van Strum. "In total, the stark truth revealed by these 50 years of documents is that the entire pesticide industry could not exist without lies, coverups, rampant fraud, and government enablers," said *Van Strum, who authored the 1983 book “Bitter Fog: Herbicides and Human Rights.” <https://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Fog-Herbicides-Human-Rights-ebook/dp/B00PZGSX…>* Corporate concealment is not a new story. What is novel in the Poison Papers is the abundant evidence that EPA and other regulators were often knowing participants or even primary instigators of these cover-ups. These regulators failed to inform the public of the hazards of dioxins and other chemicals; of evidence of fraudulent independent testing; and of widespread human exposure. The papers thus reveal, in the often-incriminating words of the participants themselves, an elaborate universe of deception and deceit surrounding many pesticides and synthetic chemicals. The chemicals most often discussed in the documents include dioxins, herbicides and pesticides (such as 2,4-D, Dicamba, Permethrin, Atrazine, and Agent Orange) and PCBs. Some of these chemicals are among the most toxic and persistent ever manufactured. Except for PCBs, almost every chemical discussed in the Poison Papers is still manufactured and sold today, either as products or as product contaminants. “The Poison Papers will be a tremendous resource for researchers, the media, and everyday Americans worried about many of the chemicals used on farm fields and in common consumer products,” said *Mary Bottari of the Center for Media and Democracy*. *EXPLORE:* Some of the 20,000+ documents in this repository have surfaced over the years. Many have never been seen online or publicly written about. The Poison Papers therefore offer a unique opportunity for researchers, the public and the media to discover much more about what was known about chemical toxicity, when, and by whom. *ACCESS:* You can access the papers at PoisonPapers.org <https://www.poisonpapers.org/>. Important instructions on how best to search these old documents are also available here <http://www.poisonpapers.org/assets/uploads/2017/07/DocumentCloud-Tutorial.p…> and on the website. *Poison Papers Reveal:* *Secrecy *— They disclose EPA meeting minutes of a secret high-level dioxins working group that admitted dioxins are extraordinarily poisonous chemicals. Internal minutes contradict the agency's longstanding refusal to regulate dioxins or set legal limits. *Collusion *— They demonstrate EPA collusion with the pulp and paper industry to “suppress, modify, or delay” the results of the congressionally-mandated National Dioxin Study, which found high levels of dioxins in everyday products, such as baby diapers and coffee filters, as well as pulp and paper mill effluents. *Deception *— They provide important new data on the infamous Industrial Bio-Test (IBT) scandal. By the late 1970s, it was known that more than 800 safety studies performed by IBT on 140 chemicals produced by 38 chemical manufacturers were nonexistent, fraudulent, or invalid. The Poison Papers, however, show that EPA and its Canadian counterpart, the Health Protection Branch (HPB), colluded with pesticide manufacturers, to keep invalidly registered products on the market and covered up massive problems with many IBT tests. *Cover-up *— The papers also show that EPA staff had evidence that this IBT scandal involved more independent testing companies and more products than ever officially acknowledged. *Concealment *—Show that EPA concealed and falsely its own studies finding high levels of dioxin - 2,3,7,8-TCDD - in environmental samples and human breast milk following routine use of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T (Agent Orange) by the federal Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management. *Intent *— Show that Monsanto chief medical officer George Roush admitted under oath to knowing that Monsanto studies into the health effects of dioxins on workers were written up untruthfully for the scientific literature such as to obscure health effects. These fraudulent studies were heavily relied upon by EPA to avoid regulating dioxins. They also were relied upon to defend manufacturers in lawsuits brought by veterans claiming damages from exposure to Agent Orange. Links to the above documents and more can be found on the website here. <https://www.poisonpapers.org/the-poison-papers/> The mission of The Bioscience Resource Project <https://bioscienceresource.org/> is to provide the highest quality scientific information and analysis to enable a healthy food system and a healthy world. The Bioscience Resource Project is an educational nonprofit based in Ithaca New York, USA. It is the publisher of Independent Science News. The Center for Media and Democracy <http://www.exposedbycmd.org/about-cmd/> (CMD) is a public interest watchdog group based in Madison, Wisconsin. CMD is the publisher of the websitesExposedbyCMD.org, ALECexposed.org, PRwatch.org and Sourcewatch.org. ### *Cara Newlon* O. 646.693.8205 C. 703.899.3206 *Cara.Newlon(a)berlinrosen.com <Cara.Newlon(a)berlinrosen.com>* *berlin**rosen* New York • Washington D.C. *• *Los Angeles berlinrosen.com @berlinrosen Jonathan Latham, PhD Executive Director The Bioscience Resource Project Ithaca, NY 14850 USA www.independentsciencenews.org and www.bioscienceresource.org jrlatham(a)bioscienceresource.org Skype: jonathanlatham2 Tel: 1-607-319-0279 “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”—Edward Bernays, Propaganda _______________________________________________ BSR-project-elist1 mailing list Info and options: https://mailman.gn.apc.org/mailman/listinfo/bsr-project- elist1 To unsubscribe, email bsr-project-elist1-unsubscribe(a)gn.apc.org -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: new website, new ideas, new lens: global citizenship
by Michel Bauwens 26 Jul '17

26 Jul '17

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: April Rinne <april(a)aprilrinne.com> Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:17 PM Subject: new website, new ideas, new lens: global citizenship To: April Rinne <april(a)aprilrinne.com> Cc: Me <april.rinne(a)gmail.com> Dear friends, colleagues and collaborators -- I hope you're well. Happy summer or winter, depending on where in the world this finds you! There are few things I have enjoyed more professionally than my role as an independent advisor over the past few years. So much has happened during this time: the sharing economy has morphed into something much more (more diverse, more complex and more challenging); policy makers have responded in both progressive and frustrating ways; and new concepts and potential solutions have emerged, from the blockchain to platform cooperatives. It continues to be a privilege and delight to work in this space. At the same time -- for those of you who have known me a while, this will come as no surprise -- I'm molting again. It's time to take what I do to the next level. Part of this stems from the fact that ever since last November's presidential election, and in my work and travels around the world, so many things cause me angst: echo chambers, divisive politics, growing inequality, our lack of meaningful discourse, and the simultaneous increase in technological connectivity and decrease in human connections, to name but a few. I've been asking myself: what are the bridges that we need to build, and what can I personally do to help? Today I'm debuting my transformed website <http://aprilrinne.com/>. It is a partial answer to these questions. *Don't worry: I'm not eliminating anything that I currently do. *Rather, I'm expanding my portfolio and focus areas in ways that kick my skills, my values and my superpowers up a notch. In particular, in addition to the sharing economy, future of work and public policy, moving forward I will also focus on global citizenship. This is a natural fit for me, both personally and professionally. I also believe it is fundamentally important -- for individuals, companies, governments and society -- at this moment in history. Global citizenship is *not *the same as globalization. It's not about having a lot of passport stamps, nor a bigger global footprint. It is not a buzzword. Rather, global citizenship* is *about shared values, shared human experience and a belief that we share more in common than that which divides us. It relates to an historic shift of identity, one we're in the early stages of, and one that has massive implications for society, business, politics and basically every aspect of life. It's about making sure we manage this shift responsibly. You can read more on my site and in this Medium post, Global Citizenship: Leveling Up <https://medium.com/@aprilrinne/global-citizenship-leveling-up-d9a74180e927>. I'm already advising organizations with deep ties to global citizenship, and moving forward I'll help both companies and individuals become better global citizens. I also plan to write and speak more on all of these topics. Plus I'll re-post many of my travelogues from the past two+ decades because, well, you've asked and why not?! If you'd like to dive deeper or simply stay current, please subscribe <http://aprilrinne.com/contact/> to my periodic updates (I promise they'll be brief and relevant). Of course your feedback is warmly welcomed, and please share this with whomever else you think may find it of interest. I also have a new email: april(a)aprilrinne.com. My Gmail still works just the same, so feel free to use whichever you prefer. Thank you for your friendship, support and mindmelding. This is just the beginning! Onwards and all my best, April ---- April Rinne New Economy | Future of Work | Global Citizenship e april(a)aprilrinne.com | m +1.415.694.3114 w aprilrinne.com | t, i @aprilrinne -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Lisbon, Sept 25-29- UBI
by Michel Bauwens 26 Jul '17

26 Jul '17

thanks Sergio, i won't be able to attend myself! <<Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 12:29:19 -0300 From: Sérgio Storch <sergiostorch(a)gmail.com> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org> Subject: [P2P-F] Message-ID: <CAJrkveMJ3juu2D5FGLpuqt4VtCGcFhkBJGXu3bPAWsXBaetSPw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Michel, dear friends Tô whomever is able to attend , I strongly recomend to participate in the 17th conference of the Basic Income Earth Network. You'll meet there people very influential in Progressive polícy making in Brazil. O can introduce you tô them in advance if you like. -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: [Commons Transition Coalition (CTC)] COMMONS TRANSITION FIESTA
by Michel Bauwens 26 Jul '17

26 Jul '17

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jose Ramos (Loomio) <notifications(a)loomio.org> Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 7:18 AM Subject: [Commons Transition Coalition (CTC)] COMMONS TRANSITION FIESTA To: michel(a)p2pfoundation.net [image: Jose Ramos] * Jose Ramos * begon een discussie * COMMONS TRANSITION FIESTA <https://www.loomio.org/ahoy/messages/sNHMKcd8qFUnqpncJdZPv1dGrmi8oPmN/click…> * This thread is to discuss the development of the blended open space event COMMONS TRANSITION FIESTA This would be an all day event in nov/dec/jan in the CBD of Melb. It would be blended open space so that there are many spaces for people to work on individual project and connect, but also sessions that bring larger groups together to build common strategy and coherence. We need strategic coherence too! It would be an easy to organise event, no catering and room for 40-70 people, for example at ross house. tickets would be cheap - $10-15. So the basic idea is a simple, easy to run open space event that also builds coherence and group strategy, over one day, that brings together local commoners to build good vibes and solidarity and coordination and bring in new blood. — Beantwoord deze e-mail direct of bekijk deze op www.loomio.org <https://www.loomio.org/ahoy/messages/sNHMKcd8qFUnqpncJdZPv1dGrmi8oPmN/click…>. Verander jouw e-mail voorkeuren <https://www.loomio.org/email_preferences?unsubscribe_token=rrFzFVx2JMf92XWW…> om je uit te schrijven van deze e-mails. [image: Loomio logo] -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: Cosmo-Localization / Design Global Manufacture Local
by Michel Bauwens 26 Jul '17

26 Jul '17

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: jose ramos <jose(a)actionforesight.net> Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 8:24 AM Subject: Cosmo-Localization / Design Global Manufacture Local To: Mark Richardson <mark.richardson(a)monash.edu>, Michel Bauwens < michel(a)p2pfoundation.net>, Vasilis Niaros <vasilis.niaros(a)gmail.com>, Vasilis Kostakis <kostakis.b(a)gmail.com>, Sharon Ede <cruxcatalyst(a)gmail.com>, Sharon Ede <sharonede.au(a)gmail.com>, celine trefle <piques.celine(a)gmail.com>, xavier rizos <xavier.rizos(a)gmail.com>, Xavier BlaqSwans < xavier.blaqswans(a)gmail.com>, Darren Sharp <dasharp(a)gmail.com>, Robert Eales <robeales2811(a)gmail.com>, Amanda Cahill < a.cahill(a)centreforsocialchange.com.au>, Andrew Lamb < andrew.lamb(a)fieldready.org>, Stacco Troncoso <staccotroncoso(a)gmail.com>, Antony McMullen <antony.mcmullen(a)gmail.com>, Vasko Drogriski < vaskod(a)icloud.com>, Tomas Diez <tomasdiez(a)gmail.com>, Melissa Fuller < mel(a)abilitymate.com>, Johan du Plessis <johan(a)abilitymate.com>, Chris Giotitsas <chrisgiot87(a)gmail.com>, Adam Jorlen <adamjorlen(a)gmail.com>, Adam Leggett <adam(a)futurefirstpartners.com.au>, Alison <adelsalison(a)gmail.com>, Paul Wildman <paul(a)kalgrove.com>, Ann Marie <amu444(a)gmail.com>, Josh Floyd < josh(a)joshfloyd.com>, Chris Watkins <singkong(a)gmail.com>, btincq(a)gmail.com Dear friends I've just started this open loomio group on Cosmo-Localization / Design Global Manufacture Local - to initiate a working group which can share research and knowledge, ideas and strategies in its development - world wide. Please join here. https://www.loomio.org/invitations/d6ed7df1e1e324a6d0ba It will be a mix between practitioners and conceptualisers to get a theory-practice blend and integration. Case studies plus theory. We can post articles and essay and links directly into the loomio group - I've set up a private thread for this. I will make you all coordinators of the group - so that you can also invite the people you feel should be on. In future, I hope we can do video calls so we can update each other on our research and allow it to emerge. Looking forward working with you all. Jose ********************** Dr. José M. Ramos pub: https://usc-au.academia.edu/joseramos linkedin: http://linkd.in/19h1V5h web: http://actionforesight.net tel: +(61)431-541-068 -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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What do I Know?
by Michel Bauwens 25 Jul '17

25 Jul '17

Thanks for this reaction Anna, I agree about agression and nurturing to be polarities in each of us, which may then be culturally re-inforced and fixated in all kinds of ways by cultures and societies, But patriarchy predates EM by thousands of years, and gendering predates patriarchy by tens of thousands if not more. It is easy to forget that even in tribal societies, with very strong nurturing, and this could be true even for matriarchal societies (who engaged in hunt and had to defend themselves), that male initiation was especially geared towards de-sensitizing males and habituating them to violence. A meta-study last year was pretty unequivocal: the amount of human to human violence has dramatically decreased over time. Civilizational and nation-state based wars can have a terrible cost, but overall, the percentages are dramatically lower than in most tribal societies (anthropologists and others have counted skeletons and how they died, i.e. percentage of signs of violence vs illnesses etc..) Ironically, though the balance and positions between males and females have varied over time, I think only EM derivatives have allowed the flexibility you describe. The question is: can this be married with a return to nurturing ? To the degree that we can enter post-civilisational processes (see A. Chandler for a definition of civilization that is specifically linked to class based societies, the need for internal repression, and thus , the need to de-sensitize and make nurturing more difficult), we can develop renewed nurturing practices. I see a lot of evidence of this around me, and more specifically, in EM derived cultures, while where I live hear in East Asia, maybe because of earlier forms of EM influences, the evolution may go in the other direction (a lot of east-asian women in the middle classes do not want to nourish their children directly because of aesthetic reasons for example, and the men have to work harder and are less at home). The movement for labor, gender, race and civic rights, to the degree they are protests against hierarchical and class divisions, are post-civilisational and create the basis for renewed emphasis on nurturing. (see how maternal and paternal leave allows parents to spend more time with their children) Michel <<Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 08:41:24 +0100 From: Anna Harris <anna(a)shsh.co.uk> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org>, rkanth(a)fas.harvard.edu Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: What do I Know? Message-ID: <624F7EB1-C7EF-44A6-A7E6-6F63E0A5B48D(a)shsh.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Rajani, In this long rant there are nuggets of truth which shine, but I have a quibble with one particular statement which is fundamental to your approach, - that men are naturally aggressive and violent. "I also know that men and women are profoundly, and naturally, dissimilar. By instinct, men are aggressive and violent, and women are nurturing". Our definition of what is masculine and what is feminine has been defined for us by our culture which, as you have demonstrated, has been contaminated with EM values. These definitions are being questioned now by people who don't fit in to these gender categories, who are demanding at an increasingly younger age, to be seen as non binary. Those of us who grew up with these definitions may be becoming more fully aware of our own discomfort at being thrust into one or other of these gender categories. Progressives have got so far as to allow that masculine and feminine energies exist in both men and women. But it seems a bridge too far to question the very definition of masculine and feminine as culturally dictated. While this may seem peripheral to your whole thesis, I view it as a radical challenge to the foundations of patriarchal culture which rests on the primary division between male and female. (Unfortunately this has currently been taken over by big pharma, since it paves the way for drug dependency from an early age, and has actually created more confusion about having to decide to be one or the other.) Nevertheless the basic categories are being questioned and fatally blurred, so that being yourself is what really matters. This is a really positive step towards your kin based affective society, where kin is seen as including all beings. Anna -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Lisbon, Sept 25-29- UBI
by Sérgio Storch 25 Jul '17

25 Jul '17

Dear Michel, dear friends Tô whomever is able to attend , I strongly recomend to participate in the 17th conference of the Basic Income Earth Network. You'll meet there people very influential in Progressive polícy making in Brazil. O can introduce you tô them in advance if you like. Em 24/07/2017 07:27, "Michel Bauwens" <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> escreveu: Thanks for this reaction Anna, I agree about agression and nurturing to be polarities in each of us, which may then be culturally re-inforced and fixated in all kinds of ways by cultures and societies, But patriarchy predates EM by thousands of years, and gendering predates patriarchy by tens of thousands if not more. It is easy to forget that even in tribal societies, with very strong nurturing, and this could be true even for matriarchal societies (who engaged in hunt and had to defend themselves), that male initiation was especially geared towards de-sensitizing males and habituating them to violence. A meta-study last year was pretty unequivocal: the amount of human to human violence has dramatically decreased over time. Civilizational and nation-state based wars can have a terrible cost, but overall, the percentages are dramatically lower than in most tribal societies (anthropologists and others have counted skeletons and how they died, i.e. percentage of signs of violence vs illnesses etc..) Ironically, though the balance and positions between males and females have varied over time, I think only EM derivatives have allowed the flexibility you describe. The question is: can this be married with a return to nurturing ? To the degree that we can enter post-civilisational processes (see A. Chandler for a definition of civilization that is specifically linked to class based societies, the need for internal repression, and thus , the need to de-sensitize and make nurturing more difficult), we can develop renewed nurturing practices. I see a lot of evidence of this around me, and more specifically, in EM derived cultures, while where I live hear in East Asia, maybe because of earlier forms of EM influences, the evolution may go in the other direction (a lot of east-asian women in the middle classes do not want to nourish their children directly because of aesthetic reasons for example, and the men have to work harder and are less at home). The movement for labor, gender, race and civic rights, to the degree they are protests against hierarchical and class divisions, are post-civilisational and create the basis for renewed emphasis on nurturing. (see how maternal and paternal leave allows parents to spend more time with their children) Michel <<Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 08:41:24 +0100 From: Anna Harris <anna(a)shsh.co.uk> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org>, rkanth(a)fas.harvard.edu Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: What do I Know? Message-ID: <624F7EB1-C7EF-44A6-A7E6-6F63E0A5B48D(a)shsh.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Rajani, In this long rant there are nuggets of truth which shine, but I have a quibble with one particular statement which is fundamental to your approach, - that men are naturally aggressive and violent. "I also know that men and women are profoundly, and naturally, dissimilar. By instinct, men are aggressive and violent, and women are nurturing". Our definition of what is masculine and what is feminine has been defined for us by our culture which, as you have demonstrated, has been contaminated with EM values. These definitions are being questioned now by people who don't fit in to these gender categories, who are demanding at an increasingly younger age, to be seen as non binary. Those of us who grew up with these definitions may be becoming more fully aware of our own discomfort at being thrust into one or other of these gender categories. Progressives have got so far as to allow that masculine and feminine energies exist in both men and women. But it seems a bridge too far to question the very definition of masculine and feminine as culturally dictated. While this may seem peripheral to your whole thesis, I view it as a radical challenge to the foundations of patriarchal culture which rests on the primary division between male and female. (Unfortunately this has currently been taken over by big pharma, since it paves the way for drug dependency from an early age, and has actually created more confusion about having to decide to be one or the other.) Nevertheless the basic categories are being questioned and fatally blurred, so that being yourself is what really matters. This is a really positive step towards your kin based affective society, where kin is seen as including all beings. Anna -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support. https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

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Re: [P2P-F] What do I Know?
by Michel Bauwens 25 Jul '17

25 Jul '17

Dear Anna, there is no contradiction in my mind, between the relative capacity of indigenous people to live in harmony with nature (relatively as the native americans wiped out the large mammals that used to live in north america), and warfare and human conflict, after all, nature is a place of predation and the food chain as well, I am not trying to convince you, just pointing to anthropological and scientific accounts of the documented violence that took place; this is no way means we cannot admire and learn from the practices of indigenous Aboriginals (I don't know much about them, they may very well have had peaceful habits, but I'm sure you are aware the neighbouring Maori's, also known for their ecological ways, where warrior tribes who subjugated earlier inhabitants of New Zealand) I've seen a few documentaries about peaceful Amazonian tribes as well, it's just that they don't seem to have been the rule, Michel <<Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:45:21 +0100 From: Anna Harris <anna(a)shsh.co.uk> To: Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> Cc: p2p-foundation <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org>, rajani kanth <rkanth88(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] What do I Know? Message-ID: <395178FB-F886-4792-B803-6C0A396C0CAD(a)shsh.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Michel, We have had this discussion before, and you have failed to convince me. My reading seems to have taken me in the opposite direction, coming across many who see prehistory, and some still existing people, eg aborigines, as a time when people lived harmoniously with each other and environment. 'Australian aboriginal people have lived in harmony with the earth for perhaps as long as 100,000 years; in their words, since the First Day. In this absorbing work, Lawlor explores the essence of their culture as a source of and guide to transforming our own world view. While not romanticizing the past or suggesting a return to the life of the hunter/gatherer, Voices of the First Day enables us to enter into the mentality of the oldest continuous culture on earth and gain insight into our own relationship with the earth and to each other. This book offers an opportunity to suspend our values, prejudices, and Eurocentrism and step into the Dreaming to discover: • A people who rejected agriculture, architecture, writing, clothing, and the subjugation of animals • A lifestyle of hunting and gathering that provided abundant food of unsurpassed nutritional value • Initiatic and ritual practices that hold the origins of all esoteric, yogic, magical, and shamanistic traditions • A sexual and emotional life that afforded diversity and fluidity as well as marital and social stability • A people who valued kinship, community, and the law of the Dreamtime as their greatest "possessions." • Language whose richness of structure and vocabulary reveals new worlds of perception and comprehension. • A people balanced between the Dreaming and the perceivable world, in harmony with all species and living each day as the First Day.' Anna -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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