September 2012 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

Fw: Fw: Info
by Natalie Golovin 10 Mar '26

10 Mar '26

Mark: You and your compatriots on P2P view the world from revisionism. Go ahead and keep looking through your microscope-provided by your "teachers." Or take the time and read some very old documented evidence available at a library near you= but you may need to stay there awhile on microfiche. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Janssen Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:39 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Info On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Natalie Golovin <10natalie(a)cox.net> wrote: > The European Tribes treated the Natives no worse than they treated each > other. Whoa. You should really stop talking. You have NO idea what you're talking about. How about forced acculturation, not allowing them to speak their own language (which hold the record of their own history), confined them under threat of violent force into reservations, among other things. But, really, that's probably not even the worst of it -- the worst of it is that for reasons they couldn't ever understand is why you were doing all of these cruel things when they were willing to share it it all with you. Why, when they handed out their hand to be friends, you chopped it off. Remember, they're the ones who gave us Thanksgiving which is still "celebrated" in this nation today. Read the reports made of making first contact with the Native peoples here. You really should read up before propagating the attitudes of conquest. Sorry.... marcos _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

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Re: [P2P-F] Feral Honey & Bee
by Michel Bauwens 12 Feb '14

12 Feb '14

thanks Bryan! On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Bryan Hugill <bryan.hugill(a)gmail.com>wrote: > http://feralhoney.com/ > > Bartering honey for whatever they need from people in their area...pretty > neat idea that takes cold hard cash out of the immediate equation and > transforms the exchange into more of a social venture. Sounds like damn fine > honey too, which obviously helps :) > -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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Low energie nuclear reaction #lenr
by olivier auber 18 Feb '13

18 Feb '13

Something big is hapenning.. http://e-catsite.com/2011/11/22/mr-rossi-goes-to-massachusetts/ http://e-catsite.com/2011/11/21/defkalion-nearly-ready-nasa-files-patent-pi… Olivier Auber Le 25 nov. 2011 05:00, "Michel Bauwens" <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> a écrit :

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Thanks for your contributions re reputation metrics!
by robin 28 Sep '12

28 Sep '12

Hi All Thanks so much for the great and extremely helpful responses to my message re reputation metrics. To describe it as a very dynamic, high energy emerging field is almost an understatement! Through your responses, I did come across the following two sites which have been very illuminating for my specific area (these are of course much more related to sociology than to the IT aspect): https://kippt.com/kusti/trust-aggregators - specifically aimed at facilitating a sharing economy http://partysmart.org/vcsh/index.php - Regenerosity - a system for recognition of voluntary service, philanthropy & gift, civic engagement, trade, commerce, work, and any other contributions to the health and wealth of our communities - uses a sort of metric http://partysmart.org/vcsh/index.php?s=Background - this has an amazing number of links Thanks again & regards! Robin

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Fw: [gang8] interbank settlement etc.
by robert searle 26 Sep '12

26 Sep '12

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Geoffrey Gardiner <geoffrey.gardiner(a)btinternet.com> To: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 26 September 2012, 8:53 Subject: Re: [gang8] interbank settlement etc. What one would expect, or course, but certainly food for thought. For every credit there is a debit so is the problem that more and more lending institutions are relying on short term funds from other institutions (who have too much) when what they need is long-term deposits direct from the public? Equally one could say that banks should not hold government bonds; governments should fund themselves from the public directly. Is there too much intermediation, or is too much intermediation short term? Japan had the excellent Loan Trust system and other countries have equivalents, but the Anglo-Saxons never developed such practices, in the case of Britain because in the 19th century the building society movement had been allowed to develop on the basis of one month money lent for 20 years, which by 1970s had become one day money lent for 25 years. Any liquidity problem a BSoc had was dealt with by its banker, one of the then big five in most cases, as they had no link to the money market, not being members of the London Clearing House. So the BSocs were disciplined by their bankers. Opening up the money market to anyone may have started the rot. Any comment? Geoff From: Prof. Richard Werner Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com Subject: [gang8] interbank settlement etc. Dear All, Robert Fischer wants to draw our attention to three articles about the web of interbank connections, and implications, namely 1. Stefano Battiston et al. in Nature (Aug 2012): DebtRank: Too Central to Fail? Financial Networks, the FED and Systemic Risk Abstract Systemic risk, here meant as the risk of default of a large portion of the financial system, depends on the network of financial exposures among institutions. However, there is no widely accepted methodology to determine the systemically important nodes in a network. To fill this gap, we introduce, DebtRank, a novel measure of systemic impact inspired by feedback-centrality. As an application, we analyse a new and unique dataset on the USD 1.2 trillion FED emergency loans program to global financial institutions during 2008–2010. We find that a group of 22 institutions, which received most of the funds, form a strongly connected graph where each of the nodes becomes systemically important at the peak of the crisis. Moreover, a systemic default could have been triggered even by small dispersed shocks. The results suggest that the debate on too-big-to-fail institutions should include the even more serious issue of too-central-to-fail. Source: http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/120802/srep00541/full/srep00541.html 2. Working paper Nr 321 of the Bank of England: On which he comments: “an interesting thought, IMHO related with the work of Stefano Battiston et al.; i.e. the netting matrix for bank systems (see page 11). On page 17 there is an important math formula regarding netting ratio between interbank and centrally settled banking networks: A-network: That means correspondent banking, i.e. Transactions in system between “n” international banks without Central Bank, (I call that decentral netting or clearing) B-network: Transaction of “n” Banks with a clearing center (I call that central netting or clearing) Theoretically the netting ratio of an A-Network of “n” Banks is sqrt(n-1) times larger then in a B-network. In other words: In case of a global systemic crisis, the “n” banks interconnected in the A-network would need theoretically sqrt(n-1) times more central bank money for the the settlement of their open net debit-credit-positions then in a B-Network. Nota bene: Actually the unsettled debit-credit positions of “our” worldwide A-network mount to 21 Trillion (10^12) $. (See BIS, quarterly review) 3. Stefania Vitali, James B. Glattfelder and Stefano Battiston The network of global corporate control Abstract The structure of the control network of transnational corporations affects global market competition and financial stability. So far, only small national samples were studied and there was no appropriate methodology to assess control globally. We present the first investigation of the architecture of the international ownership network, along with the computation of the control held by each global player. We find that transnational corporations form a giant bow-tie structure and that a large portion of control flows to a small tightly-knit core of financial institutions. This core can be seen as an economic “super-entity” that raises new important issues both for researchers and policy makers. The paper is available at: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1107.5728v2.pdfor http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0025995 Thanks Robert for passing these on with your comments. Warm regards, Richard __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group The gang8 list is devoted to Creditary Economics. To unsubscribe, email: gang8-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___

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Seminar @ Global Brain Institute
by olivier auber 25 Sep '12

25 Sep '12

The poietic generator: A net experience for cognitive research Olivier Auber Former research engineer, Telecom ParisTech digital-perspective.net Abstract: To what extent do networks, interfaces and visualization systems transform non-instrumental human behavior, including crowd phenomena? The poietic generator is an experimental network designed to artificially create a large human crowd. It not only allows everyone to interact with all the others in real time (via the web or mobile phone), but also to continuously observe the result of this interaction in the form of a global picture. Unlike most current interaction systems (typically those offered by Web 2.0 technologies) where the global social graph remains inaccessible for commercial reasons, here everything is known or knowable, in particular for scientific research. The computability of the temporal dynamics which is observed in poietic experiments will be discussed with the help of simplicity theory (as introduced in the previous seminar by J-L. Dessalles). Other proposals for experiments or conjectures will be welcome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poietic_Generator Oct 19 at 2 pm seminar room is 3B217 (building B, level 3), in the VUB Campus Etterbeek. Brussel. http://ecco.vub.ac.be/?q=node/108 Welcome ! (Dante maybe ?) Olivier Auber

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Fw: [gang8] The Fed is arming itself, ready to defend private money creation?
by robert searle 25 Sep '12

25 Sep '12

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Prof. Richard Werner <werner(a)profitfund.com> To: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2012, 11:06 Subject: [gang8] The Fed is arming itself, ready to defend private money creation? Meanwhile, as we are debating the merits or not of public money, the Fed is arming itself… I heard the anecdote about the ECB in Frankfurt, that even the Frankfurt fire brigade could not get into their building, as it was extraterritorial and the ECB refused. Fortunately, it was a false fire alarm… Regards, Richard The Federal Reserve, a Privately Owned Banking Cartel ... ... Has Been Given Police Powers, with Glock 22s and Patrol Cars by Pam Martens {1} Alternet (September 17 2012) By mid morning on Monday, September 17, as Occupy Wall Street protesters marched around the perimeter of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York , all signs that an FRPD (Federal Reserve Police Department) existed had disappeared. The FRPD patrol cars and law enforcement officers had been replaced by New York Police Department patrol cars and officers. That decision may have been made to keep from drawing attention to a mushrooming new domestic police force that most Americans do not know exists. Quietly, without fanfare or Congressional hearings, the USA Patriot Act in 2001 bestowed on the twelve privately owned Federal Reserve Banks, domestic policing powers. Section 364 of the Act, "Uniform Protection Authority for Federal Reserve", reads: Law enforcement officers designated or authorized by the Board or a reserve bank under paragraph (1) or (2) are authorized while on duty to carry firearms and make arrests without warrants for any offense against the United States committed in their presence ... Such officers shall have access to law enforcement information that may be necessary for the protection of the property or personnel of the Board or a reserve bank. The police officers are technically known as FRLEO, short for Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Officer. The system has its own police academies for training, their own patch and badges, uniforms, pistols, rifles, police cars and the power to arrest coast to coast without a warrant. They have ranks of Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain and a recruitment ad campaign with the slogan: "It's about respect and recognition from your peers. It's you". According to a former Saint Louis Federal Reserve Law Enforcement Training Instructor, the officers are trained on pistol, rifle, auto-rifle, sub-gun and shotgun with manufacturers encompassing Smith & Wesson, Glock, Remington and Armalite. The FRLEOs employed by the Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington , DC are considered employees of the Federal government since the Board is a government entity. Each of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks, as settled law under Lewis v United States confirms, is a private corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. An email to several of the Federal Reserve Banks confirmed that they regard their FRLEOs to be privately employed by the bank. The San Francisco Fed ran an ad for Captain Specialist, noting that "you will be charged with gathering and disseminating law enforcement intelligence information to the District". It also noted that the individual would need to "obtain and maintain top secret clearance". Typically, that clearance level is reserved for only the highest positions in the Federal government. A recruitment ad for the Richmond Fed indicates their FRLEOs would be plugged into the nation's criminal databases: "The Law Enforcement Unit has an immediate opening for a Communications Center Operator, reporting to the Center leadership team in Richmond , Virginia . The pay is $32,458 to $40,573 ... [the officer will query] information from a variety of law enforcement data bases for information, wants/warrants, intelligence, driver's license and vehicle information, et cetera." The Cleveland Fed notes that the job "may include, but would not be limited to: use of deadly or non-lethal force ... " FRLEOs now even have their own Federal Reserve Policemen's Benevolent Association, Local 385. The group's Facebook page {2} carries the statement that it is a "government organization". The site says the group "was established to create a fraternal organization for its membership and to act on behalf of the members as a liaison between the New Jersey State PBA and all other police agencies within the state and the country". The connection to New Jersey likely stems from a now deceased police officer, James Rose, from Moonachie , New Jersey , who was a FRLEO in New York and helped to establish Local 385. In addition, the Regional office of the New York Fed is located in East Rutherford, New Jersey. In addition to regular policing functions, the Federal Reserve police have been observed in airports with rifles, functioning as dignitary protection teams. Various recruitment ads confirm that this is sometimes part of the job. Buttressing the private nature of the Federal Reserve Banks, the Maiden Lane building that the Occupy Wall Street protesters were swarming around this morning, chanting "F*** the Fed", was purchased on February 28 2012 by the New York Fed, which had previously been leasing the building. According to the press release the "Federal Reserve Bank of New York (New York Fed) today announced that it has acquired the building at 33 Maiden Lane for $207.5 million from Merit US Real Estate Fund III, LP and established a new, wholly owned limited liability company called Maiden & Nassau LLC to serve as owner of the building". The Federal Reserve Building up for sale at 301 Rosa L Parks Avenue in Nashville has this slogan engraved on the building: "Federal Reserve System Through Which Our Banks and Government Join Hands to Further the Enduring Prosperity of American Commerce, Industry and Agriculture". There is nothing in that motto that shows a concern for the average American. And that's the problem inherent in the continuing venting of anger against Wall Street banks and their perceived crony patrons at the Fed who gave them trillions of dollars in low-cost bailout loans and then fought a court battle to keep the loans a secret. That domestic policing functions have now been added to the mix can only create more suspicions and hostility. There is also the obvious question as to why the expense, training and potential liability of armed police would be necessary when all of the Federal Reserve Banks are in cities with large municipal police forces. With private bankers sitting on the Boards of each of these Reserve Banks, many of whom are officers of banks under criminal investigation, there is the serious need for Congressional investigation into how the Nation's criminal databases are being used by the private sector as well as the further chilling of protest and dissent from another new sheriff in town. Links: {1} http://www.alternet.org/authors/pam-martens {2} http://www.facebook.com/pages/Federal-Reserve-Police-Local-385-NJ-PBA/30561… http://www.alternet.org/economy/federal-reserve-privately-owned-banking-car… __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group The gang8 list is devoted to Creditary Economics. To unsubscribe, email: gang8-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___

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QLectives (Quality Collectives)
by Dante-Gabryell Monson 24 Sep '12

24 Sep '12

http://www.qlectives.eu/ also see : http://www.tribler.org/trac/wiki/whatIsTribler QLectives (Quality Collectives) [image: QlectivesLeaflet]<http://www.qlectives.eu/docs/qlectives_leaflet_a5_Final_Web.pdf> *QLectives* is a project bringing together top social modelers, peer-to-peer engineers and physicists to *design and deploy next generation self-organising socially intelligent information systems.* The project aims to combine three recent trends within information systems: - *Social networks* - in which people link to others over the Internet to gain value and facilitate collaboration (think of Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/> ) - *Peer production* - in which people collectively produce informational products and experiences without traditional hierarchies or market incentives (think Wikipedia <http://www.wikipedia.org/>) - *Peer-to-Peer systems* - in which software clients running on user machines distribute media and other information without a central server or administrative control (think of BitTorrent <http://www.bittorrent.com/>) *QLectives* aims to bring these together to form Quality Collectives, i.e. functional decentralised communities that self-organise and self-maintain for the benefit of the people who comprise them. We aim to generate theory at the social level, design algorithms and deploy prototypes targeted towards two application domains: - *QMedia* - an interactive peer-to-peer media distribution system (including live streaming), providing fully distributed social filtering and recommendation for quality (think of social television 2.0<http://www.view2gether.com/> ) [image: TriblerLogo] - *QScience* - a distributed platform for scientists allowing them to locate or form new communities and quality reviewing mechanisms, which are transparent and promote quality (think ofSlashdot <http://slashdot.org/> for any particular discipline or sub-discipline) [image: logo_EconoPhysics] *QLectives<http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=PROJ_ICT&ACTION=D&CAT=PROJ&RCN=89031> * is supported by the European Commission 7th Framework Programme (FP7)<http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/ict/> for Research and Technological Development under the Information and Communication Technologies Theme, Future and Emerging Technologies (FET)<http://cordis.europa.eu/fet-proactive/> Proactive, Call 3: ICT-2007.8.4 Science of Complex Systems for socially intelligent ICT (COSI-ICT).

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Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 21, Issue 24
by Gael Van Weyenbergh 24 Sep '12

24 Sep '12

Dear Robin, Reputation "metrics" and online trust mechanisms are a complex matter. As you point out, social distance and governance are part of it too. To concentrate on the first issue, I would suggest you a few links for you to explore further: Books: - Jennifer Goldbeck, Computing with Social Trust http://www.springer.com/computer/hci/book/978-1-84800-355-2 - Randall Farmer http://www.amazon.com/Building-Reputation-Systems-Randy-Farmer/dp/059615979X Blogs: Eli Gothill's Webisteme and especially: - Reputation currencies and hybrid economies http://www.webisteme.com/blog/?p=1064 and some posts of my own on currencies/reputation/trust mechanisms: - on http://tech.the-hub.net/ - and a video related to the subject http://www.scoop.it/t/the-p2p-daily/p/1598025976/reputation-currencies-hubn… Hope you find it useful! Gael Van Weyenbergh On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:52 AM, < p2p-foundation-request(a)lists.ourproject.org> wrote: > Send P2P-Foundation mailing list submissions to > p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > p2p-foundation-request(a)lists.ourproject.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > p2p-foundation-owner(a)lists.ourproject.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of P2P-Foundation digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Advice re reputation metrics (robin) > 2. Re: Advice re reputation metrics (Denis Postle) > 3. Re: Advice re reputation metrics (joseph orlando) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:00:17 +1000 > From: robin <rkrabbe(a)westnet.com.au> > Subject: [P2P-F] Advice re reputation metrics > To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org> > Message-ID: <28419E00-5570-4157-83CF-0907553FEDD5(a)westnet.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Hi All > I am researching (via a PhD with the University of Tasmania) the idea of a > reputation metric as a currency in a complementary currency project to test > whether it would increase trust and other prosocial behaviours in local > communities but most importantly to scale up trust between people that > don?t know each other. What ideas do people have about how you would > structure a reputation metric in practice? My vague ideas at the moment are > that you could have resilience circles, small groups of 20 to 30 people who > would meet once a month. They would act as support for each other, but also > the group would allocate a score for individuals over the previous month > based on set criteria for how each have exchanged with other people whether > in the group or with others in different groups against the criteria which > would attempt to vaguely measure autonomy, competence and relatedness. My > research is based on the assumption that self-determination, that is, > autonomy (intrinsic motivation), relatedness and competence is vital for > social justice where for individuals to be self-determining, everyone else > must be self-determining. > > Any advice appreciated, eg are there are other groups that I could this to > that might be relevant? Do I need to supply more information? > Thanks & regards > Robin > > > > Robin Krabbe > President - North-West Environment Centre > Convenor - Community Exchange North-West Environment Centre (CENTs) > > P.O. Box 999 > Burnie, TAS, Australia 7320 > > 1022 Oldina Road > Oldina, TAS, Australia 7325 > > Ph. 03 6438 1454 > Mob. 0421 461 724 > Fax. 03 6438 1455 > rkrabbe(a)westnet.com.au > > > > > >

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Fw: Re: [gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago Plan Revisited"
by robert searle 24 Sep '12

24 Sep '12

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Prof. Richard Werner <werner(a)profitfund.com> To: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 24 September 2012, 9:54 Subject: RE: Re: [gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago Plan Revisited" Dear Gunnar, So that’s clearly too much power in the hands of too few unelected people, and hence a non-starter. Just see what the excessively powerful ECB has been doing. I have a chapter in my 2003 book Princes of the Yen (M. E. Sharpe) on the ECB, and in this I predicted that the ECB would create massive boom-bust cycles and banking crises. It has lost no time proving me right, in Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece. All in order to further its goals, revealed by Trichet in his Aachen speech: the creation of a United States of Europe. As a co-author of the Maastricht Treaty he knew (I was told by another co-author) that a ‘crisis’ was needed to get the missing piece of their final aim, fiscal unification. Regards, Richard ________________________________ From:[email protected] [mailto: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gunnar Tómasson Sent: 24 September 2012 00:14 To: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com Cc: gang8(a)yahoogroups.com ; Asgeir.Torfason(a)handels.gu.se Subject: Re: Re: [gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago Plan Revisited" Conclusion. The problems of the euro and the U.S. dollar have been building up for years and decades, respectively. If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, the time has come for a fundamental re-thinking of world monetary arrangements. First to go is the idea that stable world monetary arrangements can be based on a national world reserve currency - the temptation is too great, and the lobbying pressures too hard to resist, to engage in what the U.S. and the Euro-zone have done, namely, to flood the rest of the world with money created out of thin air. Next comes the question of what to do? 1. Restructure world monetary arrangements through the transformation of the IMF's Special Drawing Rights into the modern equivalent of Keynes's BANCOR. 2. Make the BANCOR a "reserve settlement asset" between national central banks. 3. Provide national central banks with BANCOR overdraft facilities at a reorganized IMF. 4. Make access to such overdraft facilities subject to macro-economic and financial criteria analogous to what the EU is attempting to put together to make the euro viable. But that would mean the IMF cast in the role of a World Central Bank! Exactly. Gunnar Sep 23, 2012 03:58:12 PM, gang8(a)yahoogroups.com wrote: > >Another problem occurs to me: > > Under the Chicago Plan, would Allocator-banks still be deposit taking institutions? > >If they are, there is nothing to stop banks from doing what they do now - make a loan denominated in the currency of gvt-issued money, but which is not 'backed' by reserves, accept the resulting deposit, and put that on the liabiltiy side of their balance sheet. Then make the next loan. No one can tell the difference between state created and bank-created money. In fact, my guess is that bank created money would soon crowd out state-created money. > >There is no way the state could restrict the money growth rate. > >As Minsky said, the problem is not to create money, but to get it accepted. If bank liabilities are accepted as money, 'reserve backing' becomes irrelevant to money creation. > >Alternatively, Allocators (banks-new-style) may NOT accept deposits. But the public must bank somewhere. Presumably the state then accepts deposits which it passes on to banks. If it does this automatically, the same result ensues. If it 'hoards' deposits (claims on its balance sheet), where are the matching assets? Those are the claims on banks. At some point banks want those claims redeemed. The state is now subject to a bank run - by banks! > >Dirk > >On 23-09-12, Geoffrey Gardiner wrote: >I am amazed that the level of understanding of bank bookkeeping is so low, or should one say non-existent? > >I have printed out the paper in the hope that by careful study I can see some sense in it, but my first impression of the early paras is that it is total nonsense. How can a bank make a loan if there is 100 per cent cover for deposits? Every bank loan creates a new deposit. Was Fisher stuck in the far distant past when a bank might have lent out gold coins? To get rid of them, of course, for as Aristotle said, they have no offspring. Same with Bank of England notes. > >When will accounting principles become a compulsory requisite for the study of economics? I despair. > >Geoff > >From:D.J.Bezemer >Sent:Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:40 PM >To:[email protected] >Subject:Re: [gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago Plan Revisited" > > >Gunnar, and all, > >You should read the thoughtful paper "The Chicago Plan Revisited" by Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof. It is an IMF working paper ( WP/12/202) and can be found at > www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf > >The paper is a model analysis of the proposal to let the government issue debt-free money, as proposed by several scholars (among them Fischer) in the 1930s. Richard and others made a similar proposal recently (100% reserve money). > >The model can be ignored for the moment, the first 10 or 15 pages are a very careful discussion of the issues and the technicalities of money issuing without debt growth. > >I am still reading this and reserving judgment until I am done. Given the level of the discussion and of institutional realism, and given the fact that it comes form the IMF, this paper merits our attention and discussion. > >Either the IMF is coming round to creditary principles, or Benes and Kumhof (who already did, apparently) will soon leave. > >Dirk > > > > >On 15-09-12, Gunnar Tómasson wrote: >Stephen A. Zarlenga, author of The Lost Science of Money and founder of the American Monetary Institute, sought an answer to this question "by examining the results evident in historical examples” in the first 23 chapters of his book. On the basis of that examination, Zarlenga challenges the view of A. Mitchell Innes that "money must be debt". > >Must money be debt? > >In the context of modern entrepreneurial market economies, money derives from and encapsulates a creditary relationship between entrepreneurs and owners/suppliers of factor inputs. This relationship arises at Alpha and concludes at Omega of the production process, with intrinsically worthless IOUs/money received as Factor Income at Alpha being redeemed in Final Output at Omega. > >In other words, money is a token of debt by entrepreneurs to suppliers of factor inputs - of credit extended in the form of factor inputs for later redemption in final output. > > __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group The gang8 list is devoted to Creditary Economics. To unsubscribe, email: gang8-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___

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