October 2011 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

MES et Amendement de l'article 136 du Traite de Lisbonne ( sans referendum ! )
by Dante-Gabryell Monson 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

interesting points, in french ( also english pdf of amendment of article 136 below, videos in english , and german with french subtitles ) It concerns recent developments around the so called "European Stability Mechanism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Stability_Mechanism /// http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100424?userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true "This ESM Treaty is the first use of the *“self-amending” Article 48.6 TEU of the EU Treaties* which was inserted by the Treaty of Lisbon." * * http://www.europesaysno.org/guide_to_lisbon.html#s3c ( currently to use in present tense ) "By contrast, under the Lisbon Treaty, EU leaders would be able to gradually alter the treaties on which the EU is based, which would be likely to dramatically reduce the level of public scrutiny of future changes to the treaties. In future, *changes to the treaties, even where they give more powers to the EU, could go unnoticed by the public and many MPs*." /// * * *Coup d'etat de la finance via le renforcement non-democratique des pouvoirs d'Institutions Europeennes ?* Je recommande la lecture de http://infoguerilla.fr/?p=12277#more-12277 Extraits : "Quelques parlementaires qui ont entendu parler du MES croient faussement qu’ils y gardent le pouvoir via leur Ministre de Finances. Cependant, comme ce dernier sera promu Gouverneur du MES, il n’aura plus de comptes à rendre au parlement national (ni à qui que ce soit d’autre)" "L’amendement à l’article 136 Le MES est basé sur un amendement de l’article 136 du TFUE du 23 mars 2011 [11], qui, en fait, constitue un accroissement du pouvoir de l’Union Européenne. Et parce que cet amendement est basé sur l’article 48.6 du Traité de l’Union Européenne (TUE), cela est illégal. [12] Mais à Bruxelles ils s’en foutent et même les Parlements nationaux trouvent les règles démocratiques pas suffisamment importantes pour refuser cette construction illégale. En effet, la conséquence serait, que la population devrait d’abord se prononcer sur cette extension du pouvoir de Bruxelles. Et ce peuple débile voterait certainement contre. Le MES aura le pouvoir de vider les Caisses des États sans que les Parlements puissent s’y opposer. En outre, cet amendement – strictement selon le texte – rend possible tout un tas d’autres institutions anti-démocratiques, qui, sous prétexte de combattre l’instabilité de la zone euro, pourront limiter les effets de législation nationale et les droits des citoyens." videos : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFTbIGahzhU et en anglais : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZr17HLH5U#! Pdf of article amending the Lisbon Treaty to provide for the ESM : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:091:0001:00…

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Why not let countries go bankrupt ? Is the ESM meant to enable a permanent financial coup d'etat ?
by Dante-Gabryell Monson 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

Why are Governments and Supranational Institutions so concerned about paying off creditors ? ( and interests for the creditors ) *Why not let countries go bankrupt* ( even if it means getting out of Treaties related to the Euro ) , and start anew, as Argentina nearly 10 years ago ? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring ) And why maintain Article123 of the Treaty of Lisbon, which prevents states from creating their own interest free money, as it was in some european countries before the middle of the 1970 ies ? ( currently, what some countries pay back is mostly the cost of the interest on their debt, not the debt itself, as the cost of interest itself represents huge sums of tax payers money ) It seems one of the main objectives of the ESM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Stability_Mechanism ) is to avoid bankruptcy of states, hence providing more time to maintain pressure on countries and enforce on them a pillage of their resources and "acquis sociaux" by a capitalist elite ? *A financial coup d'etat ?* Via the consolidation of a non-democratic european "state" ? http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/10/636 excerpt : In the unexpected event that the debt sustainability analysis reveals that a country could be insolvent, the Member State will have to negotiate a comprehensive plan with its private creditors, in line with IMF practices, and liquidity assistance under the ESM may be provided. Also see : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5CZr17HLH5U#! // more on article 123 of the Treaty of Lisbon : article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty, and the privatization of monetary creation ( credit ), with compound interest <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_interest> , which leads to a greater and greater part of tax income to be paid only to cover the interest o n this debt : http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functionin… including its background : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_n%C2%B073-7_du_3_janvier_1973_sur_la_Banqu… excerpt : "Cet article a également été repris par l'article 104 du traité de Maastricht <http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trait%C3%A9_de_Maastricht> et par l'article 123 du traité de Lisbonne<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trait%C3%A9_de_Lisbonne> ." when googling, I find various videos, including for example this 9 minute video ( worth listening to in the background ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeYUNbVlDoc Also note that compound interest, in my understanding, leads to a need for the economy to grow its monetary mass exponentially ( through debt ) , while such interest on the debt creates artificial monetary scarcity and a need for competition at the roots of the real economy, as to repay , in addition to principal, an interest that has not initially been created through the credit issuance mechanism , hence the need to exponentially grow the monetary mass till "credit peak" , a tipping point one may argue we are approaching, where individuals and/or governments are not capable or paying back the compound interest on all the debt, debt which is at the base of monetary/credit creation.

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Fw: Is This the New Face of Capitalism?
by robert searle 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

Some "anti-occupy"movement comments...from an investors POV!! RS. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Energy and Capital <eac-eletter(a)angelnexus.com> To: dharao4(a)yahoo.co.uk Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011, 16:03 Subject: Is This the New Face of Capitalism? Forward to a Friend Having trouble viewing this issue? Click here.Refer a Friend to Energy and Capital. Is This the New Face of Capitalism? By Jeff Siegel | Monday, October 17th, 2011 I saw a picture of some Wall Street protesters holding a sign that read, “Capitalism Doesn't Work.” If capitalism didn't work, that sign wouldn't exist! Where did the materials come from to make that sign? Who paid to produce the ink that was used to print those words? Were they compensated, or is there some altruistic ink company that just donates 100% of its inventory? Or maybe they just trade hugs for poster paint... Advertisement The Company Wall Street Protesters Hate! It's a Capitalist's Dream... Disruptive Technology Doesn't need a Government Handout Made in the U.S.A. Insanely Cheap Share Price, and... Could Put You in the TOP 1% Almost Overnight! — Click Here — Look, I get it. I understand the anger and frustration. If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention — and I don't care if you're unemployed and broke or have a great job and pull in six figures a year. The tragedy that's been unfolding in this nation for decades is coming to a head, and it's primarily this younger generation that's going to pay the price for a long history of fiscal irresponsibility and, let's face it, blatant theft. How long did we really think we could pilfer Social Security, leaving nothing more than a trail of worthless I.O.U.s? In any event, no one should be surprised by the uprising. Fortunately, not every Wall Street protester is an anti-capitalist moron. Invest, Don't Protest I've never really been a big fan of these kinds of protests. For the most part, I don't think they work. These protesters aren't going to put the banks out of business. They're not going to bring down Goldman Sachs or end corporate special interests. I do think it's encouraging that so many younger people are making their voices heard by exercising their First Amendment rights. But the truth is those voices are falling on deaf ears. Every day these folks spend shouting on Wall Street is really just another day their future is being dismantled. And drum circles and chain-smoking won't stop it. That being said, these recent protests have also smoked out a new generation of investors that embrace the capitalist spirit, but in a way that supports rational, long-term, sustainable economic growth. They call themselves Slow Money Investors, and they're looking to instigate change — not by squatting in makeshift campsites in Zuccotti Park, but by investing in profit-bearing opportunities that contribute to the health and sustainability of the global community. Advertisement No More Meltdowns? A $0.20 metal alloy company has developed a fuel that can make nuclear accidents a thing of the past. GE, Toshiba, and Hitachi have already signed. And you'll want to learn about it — and stake your claim — before the rest of the world finds out. Long-term Profitability At the heart of everything, I am both a capitalist and an environmentalist. I make no apologies for either, and believe that the two are not mutually exclusive. This is why I've spent years investing in and profiting from alternative energy and organic food markets. These are my passions and have been my top-performing investments since 2005. So when I first came across the Slow Money movement a few years ago, I was intrigued. Although I'm not 100 percent sold on all of their principles, there's one truism that was expressed by Slow Money Alliance Executive Director Ari Derfel that I believe is important enough to include here: The vast majority of our investment dollars perpetuate broken economic and ecological systems on this planet. If we're going to change that, we need to invest in things that have inherent value here, close to home. We need to let our money work over time. I couldn't agree more — particularly the part about investing in things that have inherent value here at home. And that's why I decided to share this with you today. The markets are crazy; the global economy is completely unstable and fear continues to permeate throughout the world. While there are solid, long-term investments that will pay off better than most (particularly in the fields of oil and gas and alternative energy), we continue to seek additional opportunities in sustainability and long-term profitability. This is something Slow Money can offer. Another Farmland Opportunity One of the goals of the Slow Money movement is to make it possible for all investors —not just accredited investors — to profit from the rebuilding of local and regional economies. The primary focus of Slow Money is on food systems, as they are the basis and foundation of local and regional economies. I looked through a number of funds that were vouched for on Slow Money's website... I have to say, this is where I think the movement could lose a bit of steam. While I completely support long-term, sustainable investment opportunities, particularly in the area of local and organic farming, what some of these funds are offering in terms of returns is pretty weak. You're not going to bring in the masses (the numbers that'll give you real impact) with returns that I could get on a CD or money market. I don't believe this is a realistic way to encourage robust participation in the Slow Money movement. I'm not saying they need to pony up fat double-digit returns year after year; but anything shy of what I could get from a solid, dividend-bearing stock is not going to put the asses in the seats. Now there were some funds available for accredited investors that were a little more realistic. Farmland LP actually has a pretty interesting model, describing itself as the only fund of its kind, providing its investors with the security of owning low-risk farmland while benefiting from the value added by converting to organic farmland. Returns are driven by cash flow from leasing farmland and land appreciation. All in all, I do believe the Slow Money movement still offers an additional and common sense approach to investing in the 21st century — especially with its focus on food systems. I'd just like to see decent enough returns to make it more worthwhile to the average Joe who wants to support this kind of investing, but also needs to see an acceptable return on his investment. And from what I can tell right now, that doesn't seem to exist. If I'm wrong, I welcome any emails from folks who can point me in the direction of a solid Slow Money investment for the average retail investor. Of course as I wrote a few weeks ago, organic farmland remains one of the safest and most profitable investments you can make these days... And whether it's via the Slow Money route or going out and physically purchasing a few acres for yourself, it's an investment you should be making now. To a new way of life and a new generation of wealth... Jeff Siegel Editor, Energy and Capital Related ArticlesWall Street Protest Opportunities Agriculture a Safe Investment Obama Solyndra Scandal Heats Up Another Reason To Ditch GMOs >From the Archives...Our Largest Source for Oil2011-10-14 - Keith KohlFocusing on Thin-Film Solar Cells2011-10-14 - Brianna PanzicaAsia Starting to Dominate Batteries2011-10-13 - Cori O'DonnellConstruction to Begin in 20122011-10-13 - Cori O'DonnellOther Solar Component Markets Can Expect a Decline in Profits2011-10-13 - Cori O'Donnell Economic Releases for the week of Monday, October 17th, 2011:Oct 18 - NAHB Housing Market IndexOct 19 - Building PermitsOct 20 - Existing Home SalesOct 20 - Leading IndicatorsOct 18 - PPIOct 19 - MBA Mortgage IndexOct 19 - CPIOct 19 - Housing StartsOct 19 - Fed's Beige BookOct 20 - Philadelphia FedBrought to you by Wealth Daily This email was sent to dharao4(a)yahoo.co.uk . You can manage your subscription and get our privacy policy here. Energy and Capital, Copyright © 2011, Angel Publishing LLC, 1012 Morton St, Baltimore, MD 21201. All rights reserved. No statement or expression of opinion, or any other matter herein, directly or indirectly, is an offer or the solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or financial instruments mentioned. While we believe the sources of information to be reliable, we in no way represent or guarantee the accuracy of the statements made herein. Energy and Capital does not provide individual investment counseling, act as an investment advisor, or individually advocate the purchase or sale of any security or investment. The publisher, editors and consultants of Angel Publishing may actively trade in the investments discussed in this newsletter. They may have substantial positions in the securities recommended and may increase or decrease such positions without notice. Neither the publisher nor the editors are registered investment advisors. Subscribers should not view this publication as offering personalized legal or investment counseling. Investments recommended in this publication should be made only after consulting with your investment advisor and only after reviewing the prospectus or financial statements of the company in question. Unauthorized reproduction of this newsletter or its contents by Xerography, facsimile, or any other means is illegal and punishable by law. Please note: It is not our intention to send email to anyone who doesn't want it. If you're not sure why you're getting this e-letter, or no longer wish to receive it, get more info here, including our privacy policy and information on how to manage your subscription.

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IX Congreso de Ciencia y Espiritu, en Santander
by Ciencia y Espiritu 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

IX Congreso Ciencia y Espíritu Santander - I Congreso Ciencia y Espíritu en Santander - - Santander 29 y 30 de Octubre 2011 - Noveno Congreso en Santander de Ciencia y Espíritu, primer congreso en Santander, en la misma linea que los anteriores, con ponentes internacionales de los dos campos, el espiritual y el científico. SABADO 29 DE OCTUBRE 9:00 Entrega de acreditaciones 09:50 Apertura de la IX Edición de Ciencia y Espíritu por Miguel Celades 10:00 José Luis Martínez García con la charla: "Yoga, según los yoga-sutras" 11:00 Artur Jose Lopes con la charla: "Las Flores de Bach � Una Terapia del y con Futuro" 12:00 Pausa 12:30 Ramón Rosell con la charla: "FLUOR veneno silencioso" 13:30 Josep Pàmies con la charla: "Como evitar los recortes sanitarios. Propuestas para desmedicalizar la Salud Publica" 14:30 Pausa para el almuerzo 16:00 Miguel Rix con la charla: "Escritos de un loco en un mundo cuerdo" 17:00 Jose Luis C. con la charla: "La Tierra es hueca versión 4.0" 18:00 Pausa 18:30 Marisol Roldán con la charla: "Eres más de lo que ves. Evoluciona!" 19:30 Mitoa Edjang Campos con la charla: "Tus derechos ante los scanners en los aeropuertos" 20:30 Fin de la jornada DOMINGO 30 DE OCTUBRE 9:00 Entrega de acreditaciones 09:50 Apertura de la IX Edición de Ciencia y Espíritu por Miguel Celades 10:00 José Luis Martínez García con la charla: "Yoga, según los yoga-sutras" 11:00 Artur Jose Lopes con la charla: "Las Flores de Bach � Una Terapia del y con Futuro" 12:00 Pausa 12:30 Ramón Rosell con la charla: "FLUOR veneno silencioso" 13:30 Josep Pàmies con la charla: "Como evitar los recortes sanitarios. Propuestas para desmedicalizar la Salud Publica" 14:30 Pausa para el almuerzo 16:00 Miguel Rix con la charla: "Escritos de un loco en un mundo cuerdo" 17:00 Jose Luis C. con la charla: "La Tierra es hueca versión 4.0" 18:00 Pausa 18:30 Marisol Roldán con la charla: "Eres más de lo que ves. Evoluciona!" 19:30 Mitoa Edjang Campos con la charla: "Tus derechos ante los scanners en los aeropuertos" 20:30 Fin de la jornada 9:30 Acreditaciones 10:00 Utara con la charla:"El Poder Chamánico de los sonidos Ancestrales" 11:00 Xavier Pedro y Blanca con la charla: "Tres cosas hay en la vida................?" 12:00 Pausa 12:30 Eugenio de Diego con la charla: "El Arte de cambiar tu calidad de vida" 13:30 Angel Gracia con la charla: "Agua de mar contra el bioterrorismo académico y científico" 14:30 Pausa para comer 16:00 Rosalía Zabala con la charla: "Protecciones y limpiezas energéticas" 17:00 Luis Carlos Campos con la charla: "Homepatía y Technoyoga, las medicinas reales, frente a la Venenosa Eugenista Farmafia" 18:00 Pausa 18:30 David Parcerisa con la charla: "Los Annunaki y el origen humano" 19:30 Verónica Storm con la charla: "Charla jurídica contra la manipulación Gubernamental" 20:30 Fin del evento Ponentes José Luis Martínez García Artur Jose Lopes Ramón Rosell Josep Pàmies Miguel Rix Jose Luis C. Marisol Roldán Mitoa Edjang Campos Utara Xavier Pedro y Blanca Eugenio de Diego Angel Gracia Rosalia Zabala Luis Carlos Campos David Parcerisa Verónica Storm Abiertas las inscripciones para el X Congreso de Ciencia y Espíritu Santander - Santander 29 y 30 de Octubre 2011 - Abrimos las inscripciones para el X Congreso de Ciencia y Espíritu Santander del 29 y 30 de Octubre 2011 PRECIO DE LA INSCRIPCION: 50 € Congreso completo 2 días 35 € Congreso 1 sólo día Reserve su entrada haciendo una transferencia a la Cta. Cte. La Caixa: 2100 1022 18 0100412136 a nombre de Nuria Batalla Ferrer, incluyendo su nombre y apellido. Importante: Una vez haya realizado la transferencia ya podrá recoger su entrada en la puerta tan solo diciendo su nombre. No obstante, y para mayor tranquilidad suya, puede remitirnos el justificante del ingreso por email a: info(a)cienciayespiritu.com y le reconfirmaremos que su ingreso ha sido efectivo. Y proximamente: Viaje a Egipto Del 10 de Noviembre de 2011 al 19 de Noviembre de 2011 Viaje a Egipto, visitas guiadas a: Necrópolis de Guiza, Panorámica de Pirámides Kéops, Kefrén, Micerinos, Esfinge y Templo del Valle de Kefrén ● Sakkara y Memphis ● El Cairo: Museo Egipcio, Ciudadela y Barrio Copto ● Visita privada a la pirámide de Kéops ● Visita privada a los pies de la Esfinge. Templos: Luxor, Karnak, Horus, Sobek y Philae ● Presa de Aswan ● Paseo en faluca por el Nilo X Congreso Ciencia y Espíritu Barcelona Barcelona 17 y 18 de Diciembre 2011 Décimo Congreso en Barcelona de Ciencia y Espíritu, en la misma linea que los anteriores, con ponentes internacionales de los dos campos, el espiritual y el científico. Su email ha sido recogido de fuentes publicas o bien por algun contacto personal anterior con alguna de las empresas u organizaciones del grupo. Nunca vamos a mandar mas de un email por semana, siempre con temas que pensamos pueden ser de su interes. No obstante si no desea recibir mas informacion tan solo responda este email con la palabra BAJA y lo borraremos de nuestro directorio tan pronto nos sea posible. Muchas gracias por su tiempo.

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"Union Democracy" ?
by Dante-Gabryell Monson 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy#Examples_and_exceptions excerpt : "The book addresses the factors that influence the power structure<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_structure> and decision making <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_making> processes in organizations <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization>, with a specific focus on the political systems<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_system> of democracy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy> and oligarchy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy>. The problem seen as central by the authors was the difficulty of maintaining democracy in organizations. The issue was first raised by Robert Michels<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Michels> in his *Political Parties <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_Parties>* and termed the Iron law of oligarchy<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy>: all forms oforganization <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization>, regardless of how democratic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic> or autocratic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocratic> they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop into oligarchies<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy> "...

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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: New bibo currency site
by Marc Gauvin 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

Sorry, this is a reviewed repeat, Until my regular computer is repaired, I am using a temporary computer with small keyboard and scree. ----- Mensaje Original ----- El 08:03 AM 10/18/2011 Marc Gauvin escribio: > No doubt that many mutual credit systems are made up of BIBO currency > transactions. > > Our proposal formalises BIBO Currency into an explicit standard taking > several normative aspects into consideration. Also, rather more than > being a rstionale for alternative currencies, it is a specification that > responds to the "Formal  Stability  Analysis  of  Common Lending > Practices  and  Consequences  of  Chronic  Currency  Devaluation" > satisfying the requirements (see corollaries at: > http://bibocurrency.org/English/standard.htm) for a stable currency. > > The utility is that otherwise independent implementations can > interoperate without loss of autonomy at the local level and with no > meta governance. > > Finally, the purpose is also to demystify money in general and show how > to prove that stability in money is trivial. The grand fallacy is that > money is complicated because the economy and human nature are > complicated, which is paramount to saying that units of measure as > instruments, need to reflect the complexity of what they measure, which > is absurd. Once demystified, stability and money understood, then it > becomes obvious that with the correct technical specification, providing > liquidity to all for any transaction and at any time in a stable and > trustworthy manner is not only doable it is trivisl. See: > http://bibocurrency.org/English/stable%20money.htm ). > > What the world needs is a source of unlimited stable liquidity to > support any commerce at and between any level without bias to any agent. > This means money is no longer a source of systematic instability. > Denying such is a crime against humanity. > > Best, > > Marc > > ----- Mensaje Original ----- > El 08:26 AM 10/17/2011 Michel Bauwens escribio: > > Marc > > > > a question about BIBO ... fyi .. > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < > > dante.monson(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > hmm, at first glance, > > > on > > > http://www.bibocurrency.org/English/standard.htm > > > > > > I do not understand how this differs from a mutual credit > > architecture... > > > or is it the same as a mutual credit ? > > > ( http://p2pfoundation.net/Mutual_Credit ) > > > > > > for which there are tools such as > > > http://drupal.org/project/mutual_credit > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Michel Bauwens > > <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net>wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > >> From: Marc Gauvin <marc(a)icseg.org> > > >> Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:06 AM > > >> Subject: New bibo currency site > > >> To: Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Michel, > > >> > > >> Just letting you know that we have a new web at > www.bibocurrency.org. > > > > >> Please take a look and all comments are welcome. > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> > > >> Marc > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > >> > > >> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: > > >> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > > >> > > >> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; > http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; > > > > >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list > > >> http://www.p2pfoundation.net > > >> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > P2P Foundation - Mailing list > > > http://www.p2pfoundation.net > > > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > > > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: > > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > > > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; > > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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a reminder about ron paul
by Michel Bauwens 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/05/don%E2%80%99t-fall-for-ron-paul/ Paul voted against providing housing assistance to very low-income veterans, against expanding education benefits for returning troops, and against improving how the Department of Veterans Affairs is funded. No wonder the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Paul a big fat F<http://iava.capwiz.com/bio/id/567&lvl=C&chamber=H>on their congressional scorecard. Paul’s anti-veteran votes are the logical conclusion of his libertarian politics. Libertarians hate “Big Government,” by which they mean just about every federal law and program under the sun. That’s why Paul is against the minimum wage<http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=501&Itemid=…>, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the food stamp program<http://www.nolanchart.com/article7907.html>, mandatory immunization<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-freedman/ron-paul-no-to-mandatory-_b_82…>, and the 1964 Civil Rights Act <http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html>that ended Jim Crow segregation. Yet Paul’s principled opposition to “Big Government” ends when it comes to the issue of immigration. He supports denying<http://www.nolanchart.com/article7907.html>undocumented immigrants any form of legal status, repealing <http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm> the Constitution’s fourteenth amendment guaranteeing citizenship by birthright, militarizing the border, and forcing hospitals to report suspected undocumented immigrants. A consistent libertarian would oppose all immigration controls because they restrict an individual’s freedom to live where they please and interfere with the laws of supply and demand governing international labor markets. -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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Re: [P2P-F] Political Commons
by Michel Bauwens 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

Dear Leif, I was discussing this as a possible project for 2012-2015, with Elliot Bulmer <https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670510454>, the idea was to study, one each year, 1) historical forms of democracy ; 2) current emergent forms (peer governance included) 3) proposals for the future I can only talk about this in detail after mid-december as I'll be travelling most of the fall .. we could open a conceptual page on the wiki, to trash out ideas and sources, I do want this to be an 'open' discussion, i.e. without preconceived answer up front, Michel On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Leif Olsen <leif_thomas_olsen(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Dear Michel, > > I can confirm that very few people I met, if any, have responded to my > ideas with a recognizing smile. Although Habermas advocated the idea of a > 'Public Sphere' that influence policymaking - albeit mainly indirectly - and > Colin Ball (a former Secretary General of the Commonwealth Foundation) > argued in favor of a 'People's Chamber' in Parliament (just like the House > of Commons was once introduced to balance the House of Lords), and 'Critical > Communitarism' is a philosophy that at least targets this thorny issue, > has neither the establishment nor the anti-establishment developed any > creative thinking in this field. > > If you are interested in studying this issue (next year and onwards), > I suggest we do it together. I have done quite a lot of preliminary work on > this, and you have the 'channels'. Our coordinated efforts to open up the > virtually 'holy' institution of the parliament to public scrutiny and debate > would be refreshing. > > Whould you agree? > > Cheers > / Leif > > > *From:* Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> > *To:* Leif Olsen <leif_thomas_olsen(a)yahoo.com> > *Cc:* p2p-foundation <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: Political Commons > > Dea r Leif, > > I hope you don't mind I'm sha ring this with ou r list, > > this may not be an a rea I have thought t rue sufficiently, > > ve ry gene rally, I've always thought that we should make su re we have plu > ralistic fo rms of democ racy, and not just one fo rum, > > fo r example, now, ou r rep resentative mechanisms have been hijacked, > while in russia, it was the councils .. so the political commons itself > could not be just one institution, but a plu rality, keeping each othe r in > balance and making powe r accumulations mo re difficult > > we also have different domains, the territorial, the places where we work > and study, and our cultural institutions (which may be a-territorial), and > may require their own institutions .. > > I was intending to spend 3 years, as of January 2012, to study democratic > forms > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Leif Olsen <leif_thomas_olsen(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > > Dear Michel, > > Coming back to our exchange a while ago, I wonder if you can give me some > links to where you elaborate on 'political commons' - as compared to > 'commons' from an ownership point of view. By this I mean 'how' this third > force (i.e. non-private / non-state) shall engage in the political > arena. Since politics is an area of debate and decisionmaking that affects > *all* other aspects of society too, I see a need to establish a forum - a > 'politcal commons' if you so wish - where such (i.e. non-private / > non-state) interests can be represented. I call this 'Reference > Parliaments', in which I see a significant philosophical overlap with the > ideas you promote. > > Nevertheless, I cannot really see from your writing 'how' you expect this > third force to be politically represented. Can you elaborate on this? > > Cheers > /Thomas > > > > > > > > -- > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > > > -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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Global petition for currency reform
by Michel Bauwens 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:28 AM Subject: Fwd: Fwd: Global petition for currency reform To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004(a)gmail.com>To: Tim Reeves < tim.reeves(a)rewig.info>, econowmix(a)googlegroups.com, opencc(a)googlegroups.com Cc: Josh Ryan-Collins <josh.ryan-collins(a)neweconomics.org>, Leander Bindewald <leander.bindewald(a)yahoo.com>, Anna-Lisa Schmalz < anna-lisa.schmalz(a)rewig.info>, Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com> Thanks Tim. your alternative proposal sounds interesting : http://regional-economic-communities.info/concept/market-community/liquidit… Another idea I was considering, as to increase demand for a local currency ( backed by shares ? ) , while enabling non-monetary investments and providing a form of non-mainstream currency insurance in case of a debasement or sudden inflation of euros : to enable transfer ( as investment ) of property into the local networked economy without payment of euros to the initial owners ( under legal models that limit payment of taxes in euros ? - a combination of legal structures ? including foundations ? some kind of Community Land Trust ? or a LLP ? ). I imagine the former owners could become shareholders of a specific legal construct ( including something similar to a custodian ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custodian_bank ), with users of the regional economy and/or the specific infrastructure progressively buying over the shares- with its own internal currency ? - , under conditions initially defined within the contract, with a local currency ( instead of legal tender currency ). I could also imagine, to limit inflation, that the repurchasing by the local economy of such shares could be done gradually, according to the growth of the alternative currency based economy, in effect guaranteeing the shares ( and the currency ) with its projected production capacity ? Ps: I did not check the validity of the effect of my proposals on the system yet - just brainstorming for now :) Note : In the UK and in the US, some legal constructs such as "Limited Liability Partnerships" http://p2pfoundation.net/Limited_Liability_Partnership http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:OpenCapital On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> wrote: > Dear friends, > > great idea, Dante, to have the elderly rent out a floor for CC and spend > the CC-Income on home care. > > Surely the growing undercurrent of fear of a crash, and the increasing > realisation that our current system is flawed, are already providing the > willingness to at leats try alternative currencies. Of course, all further > proactive measures welcome! > > Regarding the GROK construction, yes, my wife and I have extended the > concept to provide 2 ways to get a credit facility without having to spend > old money - activity points and affinity groups, see > > http://regional-economic-communities.info/concept/market-community/liquidit… > > Unfortunately the german website has not been updated yet, but the english > one is consistently on the new understanding. > > *Mit herzlichen Grüßen,* > > *Tim Reeves* > > Flurstraße 10, D-85221 Dachau > > Tel. 08131 - 273 653 Fax 08131 - 273 654 > > Email: tim.reeves(a)rewig.info > > Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam) > > [image: ReeComm-Logo] > > regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info > regional-economic-communities.info rewig-muenchen.de > > Sonst im Web: lebensmittel.ttdachau.de timreeves.de gemeinwohl.info<http://www.gemeinwohl.info/> > seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net > > > Am 17.10.2011 01:12, schrieb Dante-Gabryell Monson: > > Hi Josh, > > nice to get acquainted indeed. > > I believe that Leander has more experience in relation to the C3 in > Paraguay ( Leander, if I remember properly, you went to Paraguay as to find > out more about the C3 there ? ) > > I am interested in understanding what can create demand for complementary > currencies, in the current economic and political context. > > For example, in Brussels there is high demand for housing, including on > the rent market. > > I like the idea of having house owners that already paid off their > mortgage ( in mainstream money ), to - partly - enable the payment of rent > in alternative currencies. > > Potentially elderly people in need for house care. > It could be a mutual credit system, with elderly people benefiting from > support by getting into credit, while moving back towards positive by > renting out flats in the upper floors of their house in alternative mutual > credit currency. > > In this particular case, there is less dependency on mainstream currency, > as services and an already paid off mortgage reduce a dependency on > mainstream currency, > except for the payment of taxes. ( on the house ? ) > > Ideally, I would also like to find out a way for a post-financial crisis > insurance to converge the investments needs in mainstream currency as to > enable more autonomy in a variety of production, as to reduce long term > dependency on mainstream currency / demonetize. > ( the business model being : reduced cost in euros as investment covers > cost for long term consumption through producing oneself / through the local > economy, and increased resilience and autonomy providing use value insurance > in case of mainstream currency systemic crisis ). > > The grok model , guaranteeing credit through investment shares, is an > interesting model ( though initially potentially discriminating people > without mainstream currency investments ) > > Forwarded conversation > Subject: Global petition for currency reform > ------------------------ > > From: *Tim Reeves* <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 3:43 PM > To: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Josh Ryan-Collins < > josh.ryan-collins(a)neweconomics.org>, Leander Bindewald < > leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com>, Matthew Slater < > matslats(a)gmail.com>, Thomas Greco <thg(a)mindspring.com> > Cc: Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de> > > > Dear friends, > > my friend Oliver and I have the idea to start a global petition for > currency and financing reform, something so simple and easy to understand > that pretty much everyone longing for reform can line up behind it. An > online action similar to those of Avaaz. The question is, which 3 to max. 4 > simple tenets should be used? Of course we have some ideas, but I don't want > to prejudice you. We would be most grateful if you could take five minutes > to reply with what you think could be so simple that we can get literally > millions of signatures to it. > > Many thanks and wishing you all well! > -- > *Mit herzlichen Grüßen,* > > *Tim Reeves* > > Flurstraße 10, D-85221 Dachau > > Tel. 08131 - 273 653 Fax 08131 - 273 654 > > Email: tim.reeves(a)rewig.info > > Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam) > > [image: ReeComm-Logo] > > regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info > regional-economic-communities.info rewig-muenchen.de > > Sonst im Web: lebensmittel.ttdachau.de timreeves.de gemeinwohl.info<http://www.gemeinwohl.info/> > seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net > > > ---------- > From: *Matthew Slater* <matslats(a)gmail.com> > Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:07 PM > To: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Cc: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Josh Ryan-Collins < > josh.ryan-collins(a)neweconomics.org>, Leander Bindewald < > leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com>, Thomas Greco < > thg(a)mindspring.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de> > > > Hi Tim et al. > > In my opinion, the one thing that would change everything is "*abolish > legal tender*". > This would break the banking cartel, allowing currencies to compete in the > marketplace. > > However I have some concerns about the use of a petition as a strategic > tool. > 1. How would you get a useful number of signatures? > 2. Who would you present it to, considering that it is a matter in > principle for national governments, but they are in thrall to banks and > actually don't understand how money works at all? > > My activism is in a different direction altogether. > In keeping with the occupation movement which is definitely flavour of the > month, I am working with the indignants to educate them about money, rather > than making specific demands to deaf authorities. The indignants are, wisely > I think, avoiding ideologies which will divide them. Talking to the Spanish > who achieved politically nothing, they are very happy with what happened. > They feel their country 'woke up' this year. > > Working with other currency activists, I have launched this design > competition: > > http://99designs.com/other-design-tasks/contests/help-occupy-wall-street-de… > (Please circulate, blog and tweet about this!) > I am also helping to organise a 'day of money' teaching on Wall street, and > maybe London too if that occupation sticks. > > I think it is important also to teach that when you understand money, you > don't need government cooperation, 'we the people' can make our own. > But of course I would sign any petition you were likely to put out. > > Matthew-- > Find out more about my work in local money systems > My personal web site <http://matslats.net> including my blog, Adventures > in mutual credit <http://matslats.net/complementary_currencies> > Community Forge <http://communityforge.net> > Community Currency Magazine <http://ccmag.net> > plus > Interview <http://agoristradio.com/?p=338> on Agorist Radio, May 2011 (70 > mins) > Article in shareable.net<http://www.shareable.net/blog/living-without-money-is-an-act-of-community> > > > ---------- > From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <dante.monson(a)gmail.com> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:28 AM > To: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info>, Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com > > > > > Tim and Matthew, > > I like your approaches. > > Yes, abolishing legal tender. Though, as there may be a hack around this > ( see below ), > I may more specifically put an emphasis on the widening of currency > acceptance for the payment of taxes. > > May I share your proposals and questions ? > > // > > Example regarding side stepping legal tender : > > As far as I remember, certain transactions using jetons as payment tokens > ( some form of "alternative currencies" ? ) , such as laverettes/washing > machine places, or snack/drink automated machines, > > first ask for the payment before receiving the product. > > In addition to the obvious element of avoiding the client to leave > without paying "the automat", > it may in part due to the legal tender issue which says the vendor > ultimately has to accept legal tender as payment. > > Yet *if the payment is done before hand for the product ( or service ),* > *the legal tender issue can be side stepped.* > > > Forwarded conversation > Subject: Global petition for currency reform > ------------------------ > > From: *Tim Reeves* <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 3:43 PM > To: > > ---------- > From: *Matthew Slater* <matslats(a)gmail.com> > Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:07 PM > To: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Cc: > > > > ---------- > From: *Tim Reeves* <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:30 AM > To: dante.monson(a)gmail.com > Cc: Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de>, > Thomas Greco <thg(a)mindspring.com>, Leander Bindewald < > leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com>, Josh > Ryan-Collins <josh.ryan-collins(a)neweconomics.org> > > > Hi Dante, > > great to hear from you again! > > Legal Tender: Yes, I agree completely, it must be abolished. Without > wanting to say too much right now, my first suggestion for axiom #2 has been > "The state monopoly on the provision of money must be abolished and > regional currencies encouraged." And yes, not just the plastic discs to > stick in vending machines but also the bonus points you get nowadays for > miles on the train or plane are forms of alternative, or at least > intermediate, currency. However, you only get the plastic discs or bonus > points when you first purchase them/something using legal tender, so it's > not sooo much of a sidestep. The Grok, as proposed in the concept of > Regional Economic Communities, does sidestep legal tender pretty much > completely (and its proposed sister, the Mutual [description coming], > absolutely completely). > > Accepting alternate (regional?) currencies for taxes - yes, I think this > should be explicitly declared legal, but it could not be enforced, since it > requires a flourishing currency before taxes can be paid in it. It should be > an option for local and regional authorities, and even one which should be > encouraged, not just tolerated. > > Regarding sharing proposals: In principle yes, but would you mind holding > on a day or two? I'm meeting Oliver tomorrow afternoon and we'll be > reviewing where we stand. Thanks for your understanding, will be in touch. > > @All: Still eager to receive your suggestions for 3 to 4 simple basic > axioms to reform the currency system - many thanks! Am 16.10.2011 01:28, > schrieb Dante-Gabryell Monson: > > ---------- > From: *Josh Ryan-Collins* <Josh.Ryan-Collins(a)neweconomics.org> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:52 PM > To: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Cc: "<dante.monson(a)gmail.com>" <dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Matthew Slater < > matslats(a)gmail.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de>, Thomas Greco < > thg(a)mindspring.com>, Leander Bindewald <leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark > Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com> > > > I would agree with Dante (nice to make your virtual acquaintance Dante) on > not going for the abolition of legal tender. There are multiple risks with > that approach 1) a lot of people on the left and generally will simply not > buy it and think we are monetary 'cranks'; 2) some people on the right we > might not like to associate ourselves with (particularly goldbugs/free > banking schools) will love it! and, most importantly c) there is very little > (perceived) chance of ever happening so it will put people off bothering to > sign a petition. > > So much better to try to national government (or local governments) to > accept CCs as taxes. STRO have successfully managed this with their C3 in > Uruguay, here in UK Brixton and Bristol are getting pretty close with our > local authorities. > > Given the crisis we are in, its important we suggest policies that will > have an immediate impact on relieving the situation. CC formalising is more > a medium-term project. For me these would include: > > 1. Government/Treasury should have right to force Central Bank to use QE > for productive investment (e.g. transport infrastructure, green > infrastructure, or loans to SMEs) not to buy financial assets from banks > 2. Financial Policy Committee/CB (in US the Fed I guess) should have right > to suppress speculative credit creation by banks and encourage productive > (e.g. through differential leverage ratios which Adair Turner has suggested) > 3. Longer term - banks should be broken up (more needed in UK than US) and > cooperative and mutual ownership forcibly introduced > > The above combined with regional/local currencies accepted by govts for tax > would be a good combo... > > > http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/2011/10/07/quantitative-easing-wont-help-t… > > Josh > Email: tim.reeves(a)rewig.info<mailto:[email protected]> > > Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam) > > <ReeComm-Logo-Signature.png> > > regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info< > http://regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info/> > regional-economic-communities.info< > http://regional-economic-communities.info/> rewig-muenchen.de< > http://rewig-muenchen.de/> > > Sonst im Web: lebensmittel.ttdachau.de<http://lebensmittel.ttdachau.de/> > timreeves.de<http://timreeves.de/> gemeinwohl.info< > http://www.gemeinwohl.info/> seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net< > http://seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net/> > From: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info<mailto:[email protected]>> > Email: tim.reeves(a)rewig.info<mailto:[email protected]> > > Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam) > > <Mail Attachment.png> > > regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info< > http://regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info/> > regional-economic-communities.info< > http://regional-economic-communities.info/> rewig-muenchen.de< > http://rewig-muenchen.de/> > > Sonst im Web: lebensmittel.ttdachau.de<http://lebensmittel.ttdachau.de/> > timreeves.de<http://timreeves.de/> gemeinwohl.info< > http://www.gemeinwohl.info/> seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net< > http://seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net/> > > > ---------- > From: Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info<mailto:[email protected]>> > My personal web site<http://matslats.net/> including my blog, Adventures > in mutual credit<http://matslats.net/complementary_currencies> > Community Forge<http://communityforge.net/> > Community Currency Magazine<http://ccmag.net/> > plus > Interview<http://agoristradio.com/?p=338> on Agorist Radio, May 2011 (70 > mins) > Article in shareable.net< > http://www.shareable.net/blog/living-without-money-is-an-act-of-community> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone > who is not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail > in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any > other storage mechanism. > > Nef does not accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the > sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of nef. > > Please note that nef does not accept any responsibility for viruses that > may be contained in this e-mail or its attachments and it is your > responsibility to scan the e-mail and attachments (if any). > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ---------- > From: *Matthew Slater* <matslats(a)gmail.com> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:37 PM > To: Josh Ryan-Collins <Josh.Ryan-Collins(a)neweconomics.org> > Cc: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info>, "<dante.monson(a)gmail.com>" < > dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de>, Thomas Greco > <thg(a)mindspring.com>, Leander Bindewald <leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark > Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com> > > > Hey Josh, > The last time I remember the government responding to the wishes of the > people was after Thatcher was ousted in 1990 after the poll tax riots in > 1989. > The House of Commons is a den of thieves, controlled by plutocrats, and > petitioning MPs attributes them with a legitimacy they long ago forfeited. > So yes from a policy perspective I'm off the scale cranky, some would call > me an anarchist. > I say we should ignore national governments who with four decades notice > failed to address climate change or peak oil; we should stop working for The > Man and start rebuilding real, local economies with people-centred values. > > Tim, > I think our energies are much better directed into demonstrating to the > masses that local, resilient communities offer a better way of life than the > debt-bubble corporatocracy to which some would have us believe there is no > alternative. > Latest from me... > Community Forge is working with Community Tools to give social networking > sites to every transition town; community exchange accounting and the > virtual marketplace will be but two features in a platform intended to help > progressive communities manage and organise their affairs. We intend that it > would be managed and developed by a loose federation of communities. > > Matthew > > ---------- > From: *Josh Ryan-Collins* <Josh.Ryan-Collins(a)neweconomics.org> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:14 PM > To: Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Tim Reeves <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info>, "<dante.monson(a)gmail.com>" < > dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de>, Thomas Greco > <thg(a)mindspring.com>, Leander Bindewald <leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark > Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com> > > > I think its vital to have both activities going on at the same time - we > must have massive public protest, people on the streets, grassroots action > etc. in order to force governments to do stuff, but we must also give them > the tools and make the arguments - because most of them have know idea how > money works as we know and that's part of the reason they keep listening to > the plutocrats and the bankers who they think do know best... > > J > > ---------- > From: *Tim Reeves* <tim.reeves(a)rewig.info> > Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM > To: Josh Ryan-Collins <Josh.Ryan-Collins(a)neweconomics.org> > Cc: Matthew Slater <matslats(a)gmail.com>, "<dante.monson(a)gmail.com>" < > dante.monson(a)gmail.com>, Oliver Sachs <post(a)oliversachs.de>, Thomas Greco > <thg(a)mindspring.com>, Leander Bindewald <leander(a)criterical.net>, Mark > Burton <boits(a)hotmail.com> > > > Dear friends, > > many thanks for all the valuable input! > > I had a long meeting and discussion today with my friend Oliver, the guy > who actually started this ball rolling. Perhaps it's time to reign in the > horses for a bit, since when I wrote to you I only mentioned the petition > aspect, and our deepening discussion makes it ever more clear that that is > indeed only one (major) aspect, on the political side of things. The > activist side and self-empowering of individuals and local communities is > indeed just as important to us. We believe that Olivers idea can address * > both* aspects simultaneously and highly effectively, by being palatable to > a very broad range of people thirsting for real change. We'll discuss it > further tomorrow and work on getting it formulated, and then get back to > you asap, asking for your support to really get things moving, as a > cooperative initiative. > > > > Am 16.10.2011 23:14, schrieb Josh Ryan-Collins: > > > -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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Video - EU: Treaty of debt (ESM) - stop it now!
by Dante-Gabryell Monson 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

I recommend watching this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5CZr17HLH5U#! ////////////////////////////////// site via which I found the link Ireland : http://www.people.ie/english1.html via Belgium : http://notremotadire.be/index_new.html

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