August 2015 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

Some statistics on the 'Success' of Austerity in Ireland
by Kevin Flanagan 14 Aug '15

14 Aug '15

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/irelands-austerity-success… -- For P2P Foundation related messages please contact me at kevin(a)p2pfoundation.net http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/ https://twitter.com/flgnk Skype: kev.flanagan Phone: +353 87 743 5660

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Re: [P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] How the Paris Communards made their lives luxurious
by Michel Bauwens 14 Aug '15

14 Aug '15

ah ok, sorry for that mistake, Michel On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:43 AM, David de Ugarte <david(a)lasindias.coop> wrote: > lasindias.com Michel! Lasindias.net is just a glossary :-D > Thanks for linking with Peter!! > We gonna share, read and comment the post these days! (Travelling now) > > On 2015-08-13 13:58, Michel Bauwens wrote: > > should be of interest to our friends at lasindias.net who have been > publishing a series on communities and abundance, > > Michel > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:39 PM, <anna(a)shsh.co.uk> wrote: > >> Thank you Peter. Truly stirring and inspirational interview and review of >> the book. >> >> Anna >> >> >> >> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 07:59, Peter Waterman <peterwaterman1936(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> http://libcom.org/history/how-paris-communards-made-their-lives-luxurious >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NetworkedLabour mailing list >> > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org >> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: Shareable Monthly Update -- July 2015
by Michel Bauwens 14 Aug '15

14 Aug '15

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Neal Gorenflo <neal(a)shareable.net> Date: Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 5:30 AM Subject: Shareable Monthly Update -- July 2015 To: Dear Shareable Stakeholders, I took on a long overdo vacation with family in July. With a few days of inbox clearing complete, we are now moving forward with our late Summer/Fall programmatic work and have resumed our strategic planning process. We added to the team with the hire of Ambika Kandasamy to fill our open Communications Coordinator role. We found Ambika with the suggestion from Advisory Board member Michael Stoll (thank you Michael!) who had previously worked with her at SF Public Press. In addition to the weekly tasks of the newsletter, events calendar, social media and outreach, she will be assisting with the #MapJam, supporting the Sharing Cities Network and coordinating the production/distribution of a new e-book of our most popular ‘How To’ guides. Programmatically, we’re moving forward with our the online magazine, #MapJam and Sharing Cities Book. We have begun an assessment of the structure, reach, and editorial voice of the editorial program and will be convening next month to focus on this a bit more. The #MapJam will run during the final two weeks in October for the 3rd year in a row. We are currently revising all of our campaign materials with what we learned from last year’s mappings and we’ll be sending out an initial “Save the Date” to the Sharing Cities Network and all former participants next week. The design process for the Sharing Cities book is continuing to move forward and we anticipate having some exciting things to share by next month's update. And our traffic was respectable in July: 88,728 unique visitors, down 3% from June. Are you interested in hearing more about what is to come? Have follow up questions about our current work or direction? Or have a burning suggestion or idea that you would like to share with us? Please join us this Wednesday Aug 19th at 9am PST for a Google Hangout. Click HERE <https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/bjdqOW1vNTdmYnQzZjQ4dWcwMWFobWw…> to join our hangout. Or let us know if you would like to be called in. Happy summer, thank you, Neal -- Neal Gorenflo, co-founder Shareable <http://www.shareable.net/> | @Shareable <https://twitter.com/@shareable> | 415.867.0429 Get Shareable's weekly e-news about sharing here <http://www.shareable.net/signup-for-shareables-weekly-sharing-economy-e-new…> . -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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thomas greco's tour in ireland
by Michel Bauwens 14 Aug '15

14 Aug '15

the final portion of my summer tour in Europe will take me to Ireland. Anyone within reach is invited to participate. Here is the itinerary: *Ireland Events and My Remaining Tour Itinerary* *25 - 27 August 2015* *Cloughjordan Ecovillage* I will participate in the P2P Summer School <http://cultivate.ie/community-resilience/1246-p2p-summer-school>. The Art of Commoning. <http://cultivate.ie/community-resilience/1246-p2p-summer-school> http://cultivate.ie/community-resilience/1246-p2p-summer-school Coordinator – Kevin Flanagan - +353 87 7435660 kevin(a)p2pfoundation.net *On Friday, 28 August*, at Trinity College*, Dublin,* I will give a lecture and discussion with Michel Bauwens of the P2P Foundation. *On Saturday, 29 August*, I will conduct a workshop at the same venue. See details below. Both Dublin events are free but please register at: <http://www.eventbrite.com/e/beyond-money-events-with-thomas-greco-tickets-1…> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/beyond-money-events-with-thomas-greco-tickets-1… *Friday August 28th 19:00 - 21:00* *Talk: *The Liberation of Money and Credit *Where:* CONNECT (Formerly CTVR) Dunlop Oriel House, 34 Westland Row, Trinity College Dublin, Dublin 2 <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F1IYUB3B&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=A…> http://bit.ly/1IYUB3B On the evening of Friday August 28th, Thomas Greco will give a presentation on *The Liberation of Money and Credit*, outlining the fundamental importance of reclaiming the credit commons and showing how communities and businesses can reduce their dependence on bank borrowing and conventional, political forms of money. After the talk Thomas will join a panel with Michel Bauwens and Kevin Flanagan of the P2P Foundation, Dr Rachel O'Dwyer of Trinity College Dublin and Graham Barnes of Feasta for a Q&A session. The event is sponsored and hosted by CONNECT (formerly CTVR - http://www.ctvr.ie/) at their Dublin city centre venue and supported by Feasta, the Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability ( http://www.feasta.org) and P2P Foundation Ireland. *Saturday August 29th 10:00 - 17:00* *Workshop: *The Exchange Revolution: Taking Complementary Currencies and Moneyless Trading to a New Level *Where:* CONNECT (Formerly CTVR) Dunlop Oriel House, 34 Westland Row, Trinity College Dublin, Dublin 2 <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F1IYUB3B&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=A…> http://bit.ly/1IYUB3B -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: Πρθ: Fwd: Agreement and vote
by Michel Bauwens 13 Aug '15

13 Aug '15

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: 'Yiorgos Vassalos' via Platforme Solidarite Grece-Belgique < solidaritegrece-belgium(a)googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:20 AM Subject: Πρθ: Fwd: Agreement and vote To: "solidaritegrece-belgium(a)googlegroups.com" < solidaritegrece-belgium(a)googlegroups.com> The full text of the 3rd Austerity Memorandum for Greece in English Αυτό είναι ολόκληρο το προσχέδιο του μνημονίου <http://www.enikos.gr/economy/333843,Ayto-einai-oloklhro-to-prosxedio-toy-mn…> [image: image] <http://www.enikos.gr/economy/333843,Ayto-einai-oloklhro-to-prosxedio-toy-mn…> Αυτό είναι ολόκληρο το προσχέδιο του μνημονίου <http://www.enikos.gr/economy/333843,Ayto-einai-oloklhro-to-prosxedio-toy-mn…> Δείτε ολόκληρο το έγγραφο του προσχεδίου του μνημονίου που συμφώνησαν η ελληνική κυβέρνηση με το κουαρτέτο των δανειστών: Πηγή: enikonomia.gr Διαβάστε επίσης: To πα... Προβολή στη διεύθυνση www.... <http://www.enikos.gr/economy/333843,Ayto-einai-oloklhro-to-prosxedio-toy-mn…> Προεπισκόπηση από Yahoo Στις 8:40 μ.μ. Τρίτη, 11 Αυγούστου 2015, ο/η MANIOU Panayota < panayota.maniou(a)europarl.europa.eu> έγραψε: Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: *From:* MANIOU Panayota <panayota.maniou(a)europarl.europa.eu> *Date:* 11 août 2015 19:31:21 UTC+2 *To:* GUE-All <DL-GUE-NGL-MEP-ASS-GP(a)europarl.europa.eu> *Subject:* *Agreement and vote * Dear all, very early this morning, after long hours of negotiations, there was an agreement with the institutions. Following this, the Prime Minister has sent a request to the President of the Parliament so that the discussion on the draft law (which is to be tables today) takes place tomorrow on committee level and in plenary on Thursday, followed on the same day by a vote. So, late on the 13th there will be the final vote for the whole agreement. On the content of the agreement, not being able to fully prepare something in due time, please find below a short non paper as drafted by our colleagues in the Ministry of Finance. Hoping to be able to get back with more info, thank you for your attention. Best, Panayota Non Paper on agreement 11.08.2015 1. According to the agreement there will be a mild fiscal adjustment, which will allow the economy to grow. The agreed targets for the primary fiscal balance are: 0,25% of GDP deficit for 2015 0,5% surplus for 2016 1,75% surplus for 2017 3,5% surplus for 2018 The agreement signed by the previous (Samaras-Venizelos) government was asking for primary surpluses of 3% in 2015, 4,5% in 2016 and 2017 and 4,2% in 2018, leaving no room for growth. The current agreement reduces fiscal surpluses for the next 3 years by 11% of GDP, helping so to avoid 20 billion euro new austerity measures. As a result there will be no new austerity measures in the forthcoming period. 2. The current agreement is ruled by the EU law, while the agreement signed by ND-PASOK government was governed by UK law. Moreover, state immunity is guaranteed, in contrast to previous agreements. 3. The agreement settles debt financing for the next 3 years (until July 2018) and provides necessary funding to settle public payment delays and arrears, so as to improve market liquidity. 4. Recapitalization of the banking sector will be completed before the end of 2015, with 10 billion euro being immediately available. This is crucial, because after 2015, according to EU directive, there will be a bail-in process in any case of bank recapitalization. Having completed bank recapitalization process until the end of the year ensures there will be no case for deposit haircut. 5. The government did not consent to the sale of non-performing loans to private companies (distressed securities fund) and insisted in prohibiting, by law, foreclosures of primary residence until the end of 2015. During the autumn government initiatives are to be taken in order to settle permanently the issue of NPLs (to the extent feasible in a “market” of the size of appx. 95 billion euro). For this reason there will be formed a consultation group with the institutions. 6. ADMIE (the Independent Power Transmission Operator) remains a public good, whereas no reference was made to “Small PPC”. There is, of course, commitment to open upthe gas market to competition which, after all, is required byEU directives. 7. It is worth noting that the agreement provides as well for a 35 billion euro development package, known as 'Junckerpackage'. 8. Labour issues were also discussed. During negotiations, following a proposal of the government, it was decided that all relevant discussions with the institutions concerning the promotion of legal regulation, are to start in the near future. Yet, it is noted that discussions will take place in collaboration with the International Labour Office (ILO) as well as with highly reputed experts, ensuring so that Greece will not be exempted from the existing framework applying to Western European countries. 9. Citizens will not be asked to pay €5 ticket when they visit public hospitals. 10. The measures provided for in this agreement are the same – yet with several improvements- with those in the agreement of the ND / PASOK government period that was not materialized. The ND/PASOK government had the obligation to implement those measures so as to completethe fifth review and ensure funding of 4 billion euro. It was the same set of measures that was brought forward once again by the institutions during the Eurogroup meeting of 25 June 2015, accompanied by a 5 months extension of the previous programme and funding of 7 billion euro. It is today that with the same set of measures, which however has been crucially improved, after the negotiation process, the country secures funding of appx.85 billion euro for the service of the debt as well as settlement of public payment delays and arrears over the next three years. 11. According to the agreement there will be no fire sale of public wealth. A special fund (not like the existing Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund - TAIPED) will be responsible for its best possible utilization. ENDS______ Envoyé de mon iPhone -- Vous recevez ce message, car vous êtes abonné au groupe Google Groupes "Platforme Solidarite Grece-Belgique". Pour vous désabonner de ce groupe et ne plus recevoir d'e-mails le concernant, envoyez un e-mail à l'adresse solidaritegrece-belgium+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. Pour envoyer un message à ce groupe, envoyez un e-mail à l'adresse solidaritegrece-belgium(a)googlegroups.com. Cette discussion peut être lue sur le Web à l'adresse https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/solidaritegrece-belgium/8E9BD448-82A7-4DB… <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/solidaritegrece-belgium/8E9BD448-82A7-4DB…> . Pour obtenir davantage d'options, consultez la page https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Vous recevez ce message, car vous êtes abonné au groupe Google Groupes "Platforme Solidarite Grece-Belgique". Pour vous désabonner de ce groupe et ne plus recevoir d'e-mails le concernant, envoyez un e-mail à l'adresse solidaritegrece-belgium+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. Pour envoyer un message à ce groupe, envoyez un e-mail à l'adresse solidaritegrece-belgium(a)googlegroups.com. Cette discussion peut être lue sur le Web à l'adresse https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/solidaritegrece-belgium/2073639747.307297… <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/solidaritegrece-belgium/2073639747.307297…> . Pour obtenir davantage d'options, consultez la page https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Re: [P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] How the Paris Communards made their lives luxurious
by anna＠shsh.co.uk 13 Aug '15

13 Aug '15

Thank you Peter. Truly stirring and inspirational interview and review of the book. Anna > On 13 Aug 2015, at 07:59, Peter Waterman <peterwaterman1936(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > http://libcom.org/history/how-paris-communards-made-their-lives-luxurious > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour

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Fwd: Related to your post on Economy as Ecological livehood
by Michel Bauwens 13 Aug '15

13 Aug '15

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marc Dangeard <marc(a)dangeard.com> Date: Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:54 PM Subject: Related to your post on Economy as Ecological livehood To: Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> Something you will enjoy I think - using nature to learn how to reconcile our needs for resources and the needs to fit within the ecosystem: http://t.co/DdAaC58arl -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Re: [P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] Blockchained labour?
by Michel Bauwens 12 Aug '15

12 Aug '15

this looks very interesting: http://p2pfoundation.net/Decontaminating_the_Economy_Through_a_Monetary_Rev… (french book only, via http://www.democratieevolutive.fr/index.php/fr/) I recognize a p2p thinker here, which focuses on civic institutions this, which I originally thought was a anarcho-capitalist project, is becoming interesting, see https://medium.com/@resilience_me/resilience-a-fully-voluntary-wealth-shari… . ‘Resilience’ is a fully voluntary wealth sharing network. It’s a continuation of the co-operative model laid down by the Rochdale society back in 1844 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_Principles>. (1) It allows a network of people to divide resources between one another, through a trustless algorithm that ensures participation. These resources are distributed semi-equally, adjusted for degree of participation, and serve to ensure that all participants receive a basic income that free them of the limitations imposed by poverty. The Resilience network is a new breed of co-operative, that brings peer-to-peer communities into the internet age. To understand Resilience, it’s useful to look at the history of co-operatives. Co-ops operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit. (2) They have always been an alternative to the state, and might have prospered if not for the self-righteous tyranny of the state. Even though they’ve been forced to share territory with the violent and monopolist state, they have been very successful, especially in less totalitarian states like Sweden, where co-ops made up 25% of the market back in the 60s. (3) My system extends the co-operative model with a form of inter-coop contract. Co-operatives can sign contracts with one another, and team up to form a kind of web of cooperatives. The idea of multi-coop communities is not new, it was part of Rochdale’s original manifesto, in which their sixth principle read <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_Principles#Cooperation_among_coopera…> *“Co-operatives serve their members most effectively and strengthen the co-operative movement by working together through local, national, regional and international structures.”. (4) *The execution that Resilience uses is on the other hand new, and unprecedented, making use of new book-keeping technologies in the form of blockchains, and using smart-contracts to manage the organization in a decentralized and autonomous fashion. Resilience adds yet another component: a distributed welfare system. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234(a)gmail.com> wrote: > http://commonstransition.org/blockchained-a-conversation-with-vinay-gupta/ > > The P2P Foundation’s James Burke chats with Vinay Gupta about > homelessness, Ethereum, blockchain speed and scaling and whether the > Republicans were right or not. Scroll down to see the timecodes for the > whole conversation. - See more at: > http://commonstransition.org/blockchained-a-conversation-with-vinay-gupta/#… > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Blockchained labour?
by Michel Bauwens 12 Aug '15

12 Aug '15

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Orsan Senalp <orsan1234(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 6:27 PM Subject: [NetworkedLabour] Blockchained labour? To: "<networkedlabour(a)lists.contrast.org>" < networkedlabour(a)lists.contrast.org> http://commonstransition.org/blockchained-a-conversation-with-vinay-gupta/ The P2P Foundation’s James Burke chats with Vinay Gupta about homelessness, Ethereum, blockchain speed and scaling and whether the Republicans were right or not. Scroll down to see the timecodes for the whole conversation. - See more at: http://commonstransition.org/blockchained-a-conversation-with-vinay-gupta/#… _______________________________________________ NetworkedLabour mailing list NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Re: [P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] partner state as platonian illusion
by Michel Bauwens 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

ok, thanks , understood, I agree this conflictuality is a prime mover of societal change, I'll try to introduce a weirder perspective, social movements come in many guises, some are very much motivated and oriented by this confrontation, others are more oriented towards the pragmatic task of finding solutions for their problems and constructing 'the new', not as a mobilization against, seen as class war, but as a mobilization 'for', seen as the construction of a new society .. the first perspective, I have often thought when I listened to autonomists, is a warrior perspective; the second perspective is more of a worker perspective (I'm donning the hat of the hindu caste theory here): i have often thought when listening to Negri for example, "they like to fight, but they don't seem to want to win", and they just seem to move from defeat to defeat I would say that the approach of the p2p foundation, which has sympathy for the first perspective, is essentially orientated towards the second .. these human types will always exist and the key is to recognize this diversity and to create linkages and complemetarities between them, think of how the organic growers of vermont, were essential for the feeding of the occupy square protesters, as an example of this conjunction between the two approaches however, I am convinced that in this historical conjuncture, a key orientation toward a new mode and relations of production, here and now, is more central and potent than a perspective that focuses on political power first; the politics must derive from the commons construction, not the other way around so not just an abstract enthusiasm for the common, in a metaphysical way, as in the books of negri and the french book le commun, but a real engagement with commons construction and the creation of livelihoods a social movement in this context is a movement which promotes , defends and makes possible the creation of commons in every nook and cranny of society (I am more of a brahmin myself <g>) On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Antonis Broumas <tallhatsfuneral(a)yahoo.gr> wrote: > There cannot be a shift in the co-relation of powers without elements of > confrontation between the social movements and capital. And this > confrontational co-relation will reflect through each one and all of the > leftist bureaucrats holding power in all possible cases that the "partner > state" will take place. What will be ultimately reflected will be the surge > or withdrawal of the movements. A certain possibility of counter - reaction > from top down might be possible and can be theoretically afforded, but it > plays a secondary role. Therefore, in any categorization whatsoever you > will always have the confrontational element there, regardless whether you > want to smash, tame or erode the power of capital. > > Syriza and, also, Podemos are a new kind of European left, influenced by > contemporary social movements and distancing themselves from the > arteriosclerotic statist tradition of the European left. They attempt to > represent the new. Comrades up to their leading circles come from the > movements. But it needs many waves to start reversing the > institutionalisation of neoliberalism. The syriza wave has been spent > admiringly cheaply. I do not believe their mutation is reversible. Society > has to turn its back to them and punish this type of mutation, not applaud. > This will make them think twice. In any case, the failure of Syriza will > boost the movements. This is something positive, coming after years of > maturation in a westernised country. We may not achieve the impossible but > we will definitely make some progress. > > > > Στις 3:08 μ.μ. Τρίτη, 11 Αυγούστου 2015, ο/η Michel Bauwens < > michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> έγραψε: > > > inline > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 6:44 PM, Antonis Broumas <tallhatsfuneral(a)yahoo.gr > > wrote: > > Two objections : > > In my conception of the state, the latter is an institution separated from > society. Therefore, any kind of social power structure should not be > equalised with the state, if it is embedded in society. In this sense, > citizen militias or communal courts with wide participation cannot be > considered state institutions. Yet, if they are to be considered as such > [i.e. state institutions], I have no problem supporting such a "state". > > > the ideal of the partner state is that situation, and as Vasilis probably > explained, the origin of the idea lies in the role of the FLOSS Foundations > and other for-benefit associations that are active in enabling peer > production. These are to my mind, mostly democratic institutions (with > great varieties) . The problem of course, is that we do not have such a > state. and so the issue becomes, how do we deal with the existing state. I > was just listening to a greek anarchist squatter movement leader (I think), > who explained that they started with extreme hostility towards the state, > but were generally defeated and now they seek agreements with both owners > and state officials, and have been able to expand and maintain squats (not > sure who it was, could only hear its voice, > https://www.facebook.com/events/1710124239215992/?object_id=171012423921599… > ) > > > The welfare state is of a twofold nature. It is a result of workers' > struggles and, at the same time, a consolidation of state power over > society and a cooptation of the dangerous social movements of the past by > the power of capital. In retrospect, the welfare state has never functioned > as a vehicle to overcome capitalism. Private or state property was not > disputed. Workers' self management was actually never part of the project. > It was a project to humanise capitalism and, noble as such, never exceeded > this horizon. I would never say that a "partner state" to the commons would > ever accede the welfare state. This argument has appeal for social > democratic policy makers and might be useful for them to swallow the > partner state and commons policies. But we are talking about something > significantly different, a subversive project to empower society. And this > empowerment will be at the cost of the social power of the capital - state > complex. There will be no win - win situation here. We will be winning some > stakes, if they will be losing those same stakes. > > > agreed on the dual nature of the welfare state which incorporated the > labour leadership in the bureaucratic state structures; yet the welfare > state embedded great social progress, for example in the de-commodification > of labour (pensions, social security mechanisms, unemployment support) . > These can be commonified, but they can also be used as stepping stones. I > wish our wiki was working as I could point you to the typology of > anti-capitalist social struggle from erik olin wright (smashing capitalism, > taming capitalism, escaping capitalism, eroding capitalism). > > Since I am sceptical of the first strategy, which I believe may be yours, > I am much more oriented toward the latter and therefore don't see it as a > win-lose game; i.e. I don't think every social advance can only be obtained > through this strategy. My strategy would be to be systematically strenghten > the capacities of post-capitalist commons production, until that time as > the social balance of power allows for bigger shifts in political and > social power. And there is a lot of interstitial work that can be done, as > well as measures that do not necessarily be absolutely confrontational. For > example, the german feed-in tariff has been absolutely essential in > creating a renewable energy commons, and has been used to great effect by > the community energy movement. > > > P.S. Corporations that "embrace" commons projects do this to monetize upon > user communities, outsource R&D, outpace / dislocate competitors and, in > general, maximise profits. There is only one case where capital utilises > intellectual commons in a way that differs from the logic of individual > capitalists and addresses inherent contradictions. This is the case where > corporations of the same sector form consortia, which administer commons at > strategic resources, in order to avoid tragedies of the anticommons. This > is interesting but again should not be considered as partnership but rather > as contradiction to be exploited from our side. > > > > yes, yet we have to admit that, perhaps because they are labour > aristocracies, the free software commoners have found a mutual adaptation > with these forces. Again, my alternative is to use the copyfair licensing > to keep the value within the commons sphere itself, rather than allow it to > leak out to the corporate sphere. > > > Apart from these two objections, I fully agree with your points. > > As I come from the autonomous tradition, I have seen in practice the > deadly impact for the movements, when we pretend to ignore the state. What > we need is a leninist strategy vis a vis the state, but an anti-state Lenin > who this time is on our side. This means that we should exploit any > contradictions available within the state apparatus and experiment with > ways of confronting with it. This has been actually done in practice by the > movements all around the globe. I am afraid that the case with Syriza is > completely lost, i.e. there will be no contradictions to exploit. Yet, at > the municipal level we might stand better chances. The problem with the > vast majority of the Greek left is that it comes from the stalinist > tradition and is unable of processing tactics against postmodern > decentralised capitalism that are non - state centred. I think that > Italians are much more evolved in this, even if they currently lack > electoral successes. > > > do you also consider Syriza as descending from that stalinist left ? my > impression was that they were substantially different and apart from the > eurocommunists (fully social-democratized ex-stalinists), was drawn from > different traditions > > of course, even with that difference, the leadership fully compromised > with the neoliberal state and ended up on the right of social democracy, > > Michel > > > a. > > > > > Στις 2:05 μ.μ. Τρίτη, 11 Αυγούστου 2015, ο/η Michel Bauwens < > michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> έγραψε: > > > thank you Anna, > > my definition applies internally, i.e. a body that is capable to enforce > the minimal agreed civilisational norms for a particular territory (say, > forbidding executions, corporal punishments, wife beating, including > towards those communities that believe this is acceptable) > > of course, by definition, a partner state would be fully democratic and > participatory, but 'prefigurative partner state experiences' need not > conform to an abstract ideal, just go into that direction > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 5:58 PM, <anna(a)shsh.co.uk> wrote: > > I think there is a confusion here between the state ability to enforce > rules internally, and the use of force to protect. As I understand > Zapatistas, the collective institution does not interfere with local > consensus, rules and norms are only agreed locally. > > I would prefer to see a definition that rests on recognition by the people > that they are part of a state, rather than on the capacity of the state to > enforce rules and norms. > > But really no need to get hung up on definitions. We can define as we want. > > The debate for Michel seems to be whether such a project/state could exist > without the capacity to enforce norms and rules, internally. I think this > is a really important discussion, whether there is a need for an > overarching body to enforce norms and rules. > > So here is an example of a something 'done by purely free and contingent > agreements between individuals and groups'. Existing in spite of the state > from which they have to protect themselves by force. And there is no > reason that such an autonomous state, if you want to call it that, based on > conscious recognition, could not exist in other situations. Hard to > imagine- yes, but not impossible. > > Whether there is a need for an overarching body in the transition phase, > when traditional values are being challenged, may well differ from place to > place according to the education, commitment and development of the > citizens involved. > > Anna > > > > > > On 11 Aug 2015, at 11:16, Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: > > here is a very broad possible definition of the state > > a collective institution in charge of a territory and population, that has > the capacity to enforce rules and norms > > IS THAT TOO BROAD ? > > the important debate for me is with those that absolutely deny the need > for such a body, and believe that everything can be done by purely free and > contingent agreements between individuals and groups > > so how would this be applied to say chiapas and rojava > > both these regions are administered by very democratic local and regional > councils, in my understanding, > > but they can only exist because there was a failed state, which allowed > this self-organisation and regional armies to protect them > > would this be a partner state, > > to the degree that the local and regional councils , which for me are > state forms, enable and empower autonomous citizenry and economic > activities by the population; I believe this to be so, hence, I believe > these quality as partner state institutions in my understanding > > but these are not typical circumstances, i.e. in which war has destroyed > the capacity of the existing state to impose coercion, > > for a considerable period of time, this is hard to imagine in many other > countries, including europe, both in terms of objective realities > (non-failed states) and in terms of the will of the people (will to > radically abolish existing state form) > > Michel > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I think this is a gate to a nice exchange. Yet I think needs more deep > discussion. Definiton and form of The state has a long historical > background, also The role of The classes involves. As not every armed Group > controlling territorry is a state, as paramiliter groups, Mafia, Jakuza, so > on, nor Germany and Japan which were not allowed to have armies after The > war didnt sieze to be state. There is money printing and taxing functions > for modern capitalist Nation state in The definiton but of course here > concept is a design for future, and it can be referring ideal from, as > socialist and other forms envisaged for future. Also discussion on EU, if > it is a state, or Global-transnational state discussion is relevant here. > So it is valuable and fruıitful to think in this direction anyway. Looking > forward to it! > Orsan > > On 10 Aug 2015, at 16:10, Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: > > > https://www.academia.edu/14169439/Commons_Movements_and_Progressive_Governm… > > Not sure if it was bob or peter asking me for a comment on the critique of > the partner state proposal > > I can't copy paste the one paragraph here, but do a 'find' for Bauwens and > the single paragraph will pop up > > I can't imagine he has thoroughly read about our concept, > > 1) he believes it is platonian: can't be further from the truth since the > partner state is rooted in already really existing practice, i.e. those of > the FLOSS Foundations > > 2) he calls rojava and chiapas non-state institutions, but this is for me > problematic, both of them have armies that protect the carocoles (chiapas) > and comunes (rojava); since the state has also been defined as a body of > armed men existing separately from society, I believe myself these are new > state forms, i.e. they exist separately from any contract between sovereign > individuals or communities, and cover a whole territory; in other words, to > the degree they permit the autonomous existence of the councils, they are > actually the best possible example of a partner state; and if you add that > at least rojava is centered our cooperative enterprise, they are very close > to the model proposal by Vasilis and myself. > > 3) he believes states won't do anything responsible for their own undoing. > In essence, this is correct, which is why the partner state is about > radical transformation of the existing state form. Nevertheless, social > democrats were historically responsible for a deep transformation of the > western state, and neoliberalism actually an example of the state > dismantling itself to a large degree. What I think is realistic today are > prefigurative examples of partner state approaches , certainly at the local > level, and given a change in the political balance of power, a > transformation of the state form. Given the historical experience, which > has shown multiple examples of this, to believe this is impossible flies in > the face of historical reality. > > To achieve a partner state in the context of the current market state, > seems to me illusory however, > > Michel > social praxis apart from > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > > > > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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