August 2014 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

Internet Ungovernance Forum
by Ali Rıza Keleş 11 Aug '14

11 Aug '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, As you may know IGF (Internet Governance Forum) 2014 will be held in Istanbul in Turkey between September 2-5. We organize an alternative, parallel event. Here are the details: https://iuf.alternatifbilisim.org/ I thought that some of you make plans to join IGF and Ungovernance Forum can be a good option too. Thanks. - -- - -- - -- Ali Rıza Keleş Alternatif Bilişim Derneği Alternative Informatics Association http://alternatifbilisim.org/ arkeles(a)alternatifbilisim.org Eğitim Mah. Ömerbey Sok. Keskin Hancı İş Merkezi No.19/B 34722 Kadıköy İstanbul 0 216 418 0 417 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT6K+rAAoJEBLZTB73Wt+tmEUIAK+fHqMCrOPLQSwbr5NCEcof 3MRDZDUqe/4L6/E/jGNg4elHuDURfPfikcS6Gd7B7fTVcsnDXhavGpxfisl4koUV yOf0NPHNMhQ8QBhgeoE4WPtcvxashsBtUfTptpFq3FKxzfu7zcJwebmEXsE0+01j 2YrhhzuYpmLXsbWIH2P5DDR1Z2whvNR6Sp41AGA04DYJBHtbHudA3WEtr4h4ksOo ZDqIFLd3vCRwBHoJZ454o/Y6j8hnYPY0fvIecm4v3x5oaIAR6ejfLMypGiY7ivEo fMnDa1gZZxnLy1/ikVrIivDiwxob+lrenNuD/3rCv4tOCjfRzLLzH9/KZj0Sktc= =/6FU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Fwd: Transition Theater @ degrowth conference
by Michel Bauwens 11 Aug '14

11 Aug '14

thanks for spreading the word, especially to artistic friends ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dominik Werner <mr.domnik(a)googlemail.com> Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:00 PM Subject: Transition Theater @ degrowth conference To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004(a)gmail.com> Dear Michel Bauwens, both of us will be at the degrowth conference in Leipzig. Actually I am preparing a interactive forum-theater play on issues around time-money-community with a group in Marburg. The premiere will be at the degrowth conference on 04.september - see program <http://programme.leipzig.degrowth.org/en/degrowth2014/public/events/103> Now I have the question if you would share the link to our crowdfunding or just the projectwebsite through your facebook account? I know that you share a lot about projects that are going on. Maybe also about this creative process for commoning of theatreplay that will tell a shared story about our struggles living in a culture of growth and acceleration. You can find all infos here. If you need some english summary or something - just let me know! www.visionbakery.com/transitiontheater www.transitiontheater.net Hope to see you at the degrowth - thanks for any support you might be able to share with us! greetings from Marburg, Dominik Werner -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0

Re: [P2P-F] new calendar option for the p2p blog
by Michel Bauwens 10 Aug '14

10 Aug '14

ok, thanks!! On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Javier Arturo Rodriguez <codehead(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hello Michel, > > > On 2014-08-10 12:03 , Michel Bauwens wrote: > > that sounds sensible javier, > > ok, just tell me which google calendar to use and I will start adding > items > > I just created the calendar " P2PF events" and shared it with you, James > and Kevin as admins. You all may add events and other participants. > > It can be embedded in the blog through a plugin, using this URL > > > https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/juqeimmnqdi06iv56rhs6eu2l4%40group.cal… > > or as plain HTML in a page, with this snippet: > > <iframe src= > "https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=juqeimmnqdi06iv56rhs6eu2l4%40grou…" > <https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=juqeimmnqdi06iv56rhs6eu2l4%40grou…> > style="border: 0" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" > scrolling="no"></iframe> > > The calendar has GMT as its timezone, so when adding events please be > careful to enter the timezone of the actual country where the event will > take place. > > > Michel > > > All the best, > > -Javier Arturo Rodríguez > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0

Fwd: Planning, re-planning and coordination ([email protected])
by Michel Bauwens 10 Aug '14

10 Aug '14

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> Date: Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Planning, re-planning and coordination ( michel(a)p2pfoundation.net) To: "Jean-Daniel Cusin Copy of debate with Jean-Daniel and a number of cooperativists: an amazing overview you have done here ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ewf9k1H7mBJEd8wjL0ZIJWU4dkoqLyDJVqhf3L1… ) of course, it's gonna take some time to read it and take it all in but you have one section which directly addresses p2p, so I'm going to do a first reaction of that section you write <This debate between Michel and Michael Albert about the differences between Parecon and P2P <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.p2pfoundation.net%2Fdebating-…> might also apply to the head design above. I agree with Bauwens about some things, and Albert on some others. I agree with Bauwens that Parecon is a utopian idea about a total design for society that, like my ideas above, will not happen the way Albert or I think they will. Society evolves through people exploring adjacent possibilities. I agree with Bauwens that P2P networks are happening that way. As Bauwens writes in this other response to Parecon <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fzcomm.org%2Fznetarticle%2Fsecond-r…> , P2P is a really existing practice, and indeed, most practitioners do not really care about the larger social context, or at least do not see it as necessarily directly connected to their p2p practice. They adhere to various philosophical and ideological paradigms, even as they are engaging in free software, open design, etc.. Paradoxically, I see this as a strength rather than a weakness, since it means that the practice is not growing because they think it is a ‘ethically nice thing to do’, but rather as a practical necessity that delivers results. And this is precisely why I think it will grow, beyond my or your wishes. I propose a next step, which is the one you call for, i.e. I connect this really existing practice, with the overall necessity for social change towards more equitable and sustainable society. The question is: will those proposals and that vision will be taken up, and that is indeed an open question. But I see many signs of such socialization and politicalization of the projects.> MB Response: In this context,what is important is this. For more than 15 years now, peer production communities , have proven that it is possible to produce highly complex social artifacts (in the form of global shareable commons) through mutual coordination and stigmery, by scaling up small group dynamics (average team of linux is 4 people), and without using command and control hierarchies nor market pricing. This is the reality. And my conclusion is: what market pricing is to the market and planning is to the state, mutual coordination is to the commons. The question now becomes: can we also introduce these dynamics to coordination of material production. And the answer is yes, because material production can't happen without information coordination and stigmergic coordination can be applied to that level, 'informing production decisions' in the material field. Hence the proposal to create ethical enterpreneurial coalitions consisting of open coops that accept to use open accounting and supply chains, so that all members of the coalition can mutually adapt their production to real needs and realities, without necessarily planning or market price signals. In cases of conflicts, the second level of negotiated coordination emerges, where democratic decisions can be made. And as the culture of cooperation matures, it is likely that democratic planning processes will emerge to avoid recurring issues. <I agree with Parecon about democratic planning based on needs, with production organizations responding to those needs. P2P networks tend to be composed of individualists who want to do whatever they want. > MB: This is a very caricuturing vision of peer production in my opinion. First of all the willingness to produce for a shareable common good is a very high form of social consciousness, since it is the first one that unlike the market nor the gift, does not require direct reciprocity. It requires high capacities for autonomy (the capacity to work without command) and cooperation (the capacity to work amongst equals without coercion) and demonstrably emerges into societies that have reached post-materialist consciousness (see the work of ronald inglehart, susan-cook greuter, paul ray etc ..). The fact that people in peer production are free to contribute does not at all mean that they follow selfish motivations, on the contrary, gifting your time, energy and skills to projects that do not guarantee a reward is a sign of going beyond the self. True peer production is motivation agnostic, but the projects are neither win-loose nor win-win projects (like the market), but by definition projects that serve a social good and are designed to be shareable by all people, not just the contributors. <Heaven forbid they should have to get a job! (I understand, nobody wants a job. But still.) Many of them do not feel any responsibility to satisfy social needs: they got their own ideas. So there’s a bunch of PB libertarian thinking in those networks, and they will not like democratic planning telling them what to do.> MB: 75% of Linux programmers have a job, in some countries of latin america, 100% of free software developers have a job, there are just not the kind of command and control jobs we have been used to in the industrial era. I answered the idea that peer producers are a bunch of libertarians just above. This is not to say there are zero percent libertarians in peer production, but they are part of a very diverse and pluralistic bunch. In fact, if you would look at a random sample of coworking spaces, fablabs, hackerspaces, you would discover that the majority are in fact motivated to be there by a social good logic. But why impose planning, democratic or not, where it is not necessary? This is the great social innovation of peer production, i.e. to allow the majority of decisions to be made by self-allocation, and to keep democratic negotiation, and planning, at the levels where they are necessary. This is a huge step forward given the repeated failures of so-called democratic planning. The autogestion movement floundered on it, and political assemblies last no more than 3 months. This is the reality of democratic planning. Most people don't want to spend time in endless conflictual meetings that tend to be dominated in the end by the most committed, forming a new elite. So in peer production, democracy is built on top of a reality of maximally free choice at the individual level, but that individual choice level is informed through stigmergy and the needs of the whole system. It is also important to realize that peer production is a demand-driven and not a supply-driven economy, i.e. there is no incentive for permanent overproduction, it starts from social needs from the very beginning, and the design in open communities is naturally sustainable, again because there is no incentive for artificial scarcities (this practice needs of course to be systematized to create true effectiveness) <I don’t know how to combine P2P libertarian tendencies with an economy driven by human and ecological needs. I think I see it evolving as people’s consciousness evolves, but that is more of a faith-based than fact-based answer. Bauwens also thinks social consciousness will evolve out of P2P networks. I sure hope so.> Being determines consciousness (and consciousness then changes being, in an integral loop). So, that there is a change in consciousness is not only to be expected, but it is already occuring on a large scale. The class consciousness of peer producers is already different from capital and labour, and the changes in civic consciousness have already been documented by the Edelman Trust Barometer, with a huge shift from authority to peer trust documented in 2007, and a week ago, the Global Innovation Barometer showed a huge shift towards collaboration, in just one year, in the heart of the business class itself. But this does not mean of course a political consciousness. This is what the political struggle is about, just as it was in the 19th century, when the labour movement worked to create a 'consciousness-fur-sich'. It is not different today, the new social condition is subject to ideological struggles. This is our responsibility, there will be nothing automatic about it. And the whole reason of being of the p2p foundation is about this (a survey of the 50 coworking spaces in barcelona 2 years ago showed the p2p foundation to be the prime ideological influence amongst coworking participants) <But I think the reorganization required to be driven by human and ecological needs will need political organization and institutions at least at the level of analysis. I don’t know what territory such institutions will need to cover: whether this is Bauwens’ concept of a Partner State, or ecological region, or historically evolved community. I don’t think the needs can be decided purely by the production organizations, unless the production organization and the political community and the reproduction of life are unified in some way. If they were, that’s where I want to live. I think I’d like it to be a bioregional state <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fp2pfoundation.net%2FToward_a_Biore…>. (But I know I will get what evolves from the current situation and the forces at work. I’d just like to be part of the forces pushing in this direction.)> MB: we agree here, I have proposed the dual self-organisation of a civic assembly of the commons, and a production-based chamber of the commons, which both produce a social charter and re-organized social and political forces around the commons and the agreement around the charter. With the CIC next spring, we will work directly on the creation of civic institutions which enable and empower autonomous social production. <Another angle: some things <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fp2pfoundation.net%2FThoughts_on_P2…> don’t actually work decentralized, at least yet, and probably for the foreseeable future.> MB: agreed here, but the principle of subsidarity is a good guide here, i.e. a preference for the lowest AND most appropriate level <Bauwens worries about coercion but also wants to retain a market. I don’t, although I understand the need for transitions. Money is coercive. Those who do not understand that have never been poor. The need for money coerces people to do something to make money, which usually means, get a job that they do not want. Or it could be criminal activity, which has a lot of attractions for the participants, although not the victims. When my oldest son went to high school in a poor neighborhood in Chicago, the top two ambitions, in order of preference, were to deal drugs or join the military. Both can get you killed.> MB: if you agree that money can't be simply abolished, then the important freedom is to make sure everyone has access to it, but that does not mean that everything needs to be monetized and commodified; and this is of course what peer production does, it recreates a massive field of direct use value creation that is outside the monetary economy; but it creates a crisis of livelyhood if there is no alternative means to have access to resources; democratizing and equalizing access to income and ownership, seems a realistic way to achieve this; if you want to abolish the freedom to autonomously produce( and sell), you will need an extraordinary amount of coercion, likely more than what we now have in our monetized and democratic societies. The record of such attempts (the bolcheviks before the NEP, Pol Pot, the prison system), is not exactly good; the record of democratizing income (the welfare state), are much better. The first consequence of outlawing the market would be of course to outlaw Jean-Daniel's own project in Haiti. The abolition of money does not mean the abolition and may mean more coercion , were the serfs in the middle ages free because they had no access to money, not likely. So I think the answer is to create possibilities to create and share value outside of the monetary sphere, by the creation of immaterial and material commons and to gradually overcome the need for money. I believe this is what the CIC does with its integral revolution and I fully support such processes. This is also what peer production can achieve by moving gradually to resource-based economic exchange. An open and transparent production system would gradually remove the need to resort to pricing signals. I do believe that ethical, non-capitalist markets are part of the transition, until that time as people no longer want to operate in this way. Like with the state, this requires that working alternatives gradually come into place, they can't be coerced out of existence. <My favorite transitional idea that is actually on the table here and there, is the basic income guarantee (BIG), which I think Bauwens likes as well. (Dyer-Witheford thinks it is reformist, which of course is true, but it would be a good reform and I think would enable more transformative ideas.) And I would be even happier with the New Socialism ideas of non-circulating labor certificates or Parecon’s ideas of wages for socially necessary work. But all three of those are good ideas that will not happen in the current social-political climate. BIG is the closest to possible.> MB: I like the basic income, but I think it is revolutionary proposal and this is why it may not work. The reasoning is simple: capitalism is based on the creation of labor as a commodity, and Polanyi has great chapters on how the smithian system was predicated on the total destruction of the existing basic income of the 17th cy, but a BIG makes labour into a commons again, and thereby upends the very basis of the current political economy. It therefore necessitates revolutionary social power to achieve, but if you have it, why stop with the BIG. This makes me conclude that the BIG is not a transitional proposal, but something that can only be achieved after a phase transition. This is why I support the transition income instead ( http://p2pfoundation.net/Introducing_an_Economic_Transition_Income) <However, I do think this head design is compatible in some ways with both Albert’s and Bauwens’ visions. For Bauwens, I see this evolving now from P2P networks that want to use our system and other similar systems to organize their economic activity, and then internetwork with each other. For Albert, I think social needs will become part of that picture, and will be decided democratically. Could use Castoriadis’ idea of multiple plans (at what I called the analysis level) and Dyer-Witheford’s agents and bots to make the participatory decisions more tractable.> All these proposals require a social force willing to implement them. Peer producers , and their livelyhood organisations, are the only ones that can realistically achieve any proposal. There will be no phase transition without the prior establishment of a proto-mode of production and a social subject that is willing to construct and fight for such alternatives. I personally believe that 'labour-within-capital" can no longer be that subject, but the people who are actively constructing a new mode of value creation and distribution, can. This is why we need coops that do not function within capital, but within the accumulation of the commons. On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Jean-Daniel Cusin (via Google Docs) < jdcusin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've shared an item with you. > > This is to give you edit access to the document. > > [image: Document] Planning, re-planning and coordination > <https://docs.google.com/a/p2pfoundation.net/document/d/1Ewf9k1H7mBJEd8wjL0Z…> > Google Docs: Create and edit documents online. [image: Logo for Google > Docs] <https://drive.google.com> > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0

Re: [P2P-F] new calendar option for the p2p blog
by Michel Bauwens 10 Aug '14

10 Aug '14

thanks for that initiative Amanda, I will look for material for this site, Michel On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Amanda Jansen <jansenam74(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I was busy with this wordpress: www.michelbauwensevents.wordpress.com > > There are several ways to include the calendar: for example syncing it > with iCal-calendar, Google-calendar and so on. > > Javier: my account to log in is: > Amanda Jansen > 100%amanda > > Have a look, or let's plan a Skype-call to fix it. > > Michel do you agree with this plan to use this wordpress and upgrade it > more later? > > > > Groet, kind regards, > Amanda Jansen > > *Enabling experiences of sharing* > *When beauty encounters beauty, enriching happens* > > [image: Amanda Jansen on about.me] > > Amanda Jansen > about.me/amanda_jansen > <http://about.me/amanda_jansen> > > Connector OuiShare Netherlands > Coordinator Urban Commons Transition Netherlands > +316 414 657 98 > amanda(a)ouishare.net > > Wilt u meer weten over Delende Steden? Meldt u zich aan voor de > bijeenkomsten op 25 juni en 24 september as. via: > www.slimmestedendelen.nl > > Video's en rapporten van OuiShare Fest 2014: > http://bit.ly/OuiShareFestrecap > > De visuele opbrengsten van ons satelliet-event in Den Haag: > www.onthevolcano.blogspot.nl > > > > 2014-08-10 12:03 GMT+02:00 Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net>: > > that sounds sensible javier, >> >> ok, just tell me which google calendar to use and I will start adding >> items >> >> Michel >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Devin Balkind <devin(a)sarapis.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm happy to help with the wordpress. If someone wants to give me an >>> account I can poke around, figure out how things are working and report >>> back with some recommendations. I promise not to change anything. :) >>> On Aug 8, 2014 11:56 AM, "Devin Balkind" <devin(a)sarapis.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Michel, who admins the the blog.p2pfoundation.net website? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 5:30 AM, Michel Bauwens < >>>> michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> so we go for devin's 2nd suggestion ? >>>>> >>>>> any chance to get this done before my departure ? >>>>> >>>>> Michel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Stacco Troncoso < >>>>> staccotroncoso(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As we are bound for a buddypress-theme update pretty soon I think >>>>>> that Devin's suggestion makes a lot of sense. We can add it to the issue >>>>>> tracking requests. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Kevin Flanagan < >>>>>> kevin(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I meant that its running on Wordpress not Facebook sorry its late >>>>>>> here >>>>>>> and I'm half asleep >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kevin Flanagan: >>>>>>> > Hi Michel, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I had a quick look at the calender it is running on facebook but it >>>>>>> > looks like it is either a manually coded page or a special plugin I >>>>>>> > could not detect. Do you know who is running this site perhaps we >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> > ask them more directly about what plugin they used for their >>>>>>> events? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Kevin >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Michel Bauwens: >>>>>>> >> a public calendar is now a priority, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I just shared with kevin a really nice application on the digital >>>>>>> social >>>>>>> >> innovation site, but haven't kept the link, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I would really like to have that calendar before my departure on >>>>>>> August 25, >>>>>>> >> so I can put my whole fall 2014 lecture schedule there, and so >>>>>>> can you and >>>>>>> >> others in our network, while also adding the strategic events in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >> broader field, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> shareable also have a very effective public calendar, so I copy >>>>>>> neal for >>>>>>> >> eventual advice, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> would be really nice if someone could make this happen before the >>>>>>> 25th, >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Michel >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Layne Hartsell < >>>>>>> >> hartsellml(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> Is this something we could do for us to see who is where, what >>>>>>> topic and >>>>>>> >>> date etc.? >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> e.g. >>>>>>> >>> Michel, Amsterdam, Sept 25 >>>>>>> >>> Stacco, Madrid, xxxx >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Michel Bauwens < >>>>>>> michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> >>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> Dear Kevin, >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> in the context of instituting a public calendar for global p2p >>>>>>> >>>> activities, including those by our own network, this is a great >>>>>>> >>>> presentation in my opinion, see: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> http://digitalsocial.eu/events >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I >>>>>>> have no >>>>>>> >>>> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> < >>>>>>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>>>>>> >Updates: >>>>>>> >>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: >>>>>>> http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> - Stacco Troncoso <http://about.me/staccotroncoso> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no >>>>> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* >>>>> >>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>>>> >>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation> >>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>>>> >>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >>>>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net >>>>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Devin Balkind >>>> Founder & Director*, Sarapis <http://sarapis.org>* >>>> Lead Coordinator, *NYC:Prepared* <http://nycprepared.org> >>>> 134 Spring St, Suite 302 >>>> New York, NY, 10012 >>>> m.917.748.1048 >>>> devin(a)sarapis.org >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no >> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0

Re: [P2P-F] new calendar option for the p2p blog
by Michel Bauwens 10 Aug '14

10 Aug '14

so we go for devin's 2nd suggestion ? any chance to get this done before my departure ? Michel On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Stacco Troncoso <staccotroncoso(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As we are bound for a buddypress-theme update pretty soon I think that > Devin's suggestion makes a lot of sense. We can add it to the issue > tracking requests. > > > On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Kevin Flanagan <kevin(a)p2pfoundation.net> > wrote: > >> I meant that its running on Wordpress not Facebook sorry its late here >> and I'm half asleep >> >> Kevin Flanagan: >> > Hi Michel, >> > >> > I had a quick look at the calender it is running on facebook but it >> > looks like it is either a manually coded page or a special plugin I >> > could not detect. Do you know who is running this site perhaps we can >> > ask them more directly about what plugin they used for their events? >> > >> > Kevin >> > >> > Michel Bauwens: >> >> a public calendar is now a priority, >> >> >> >> I just shared with kevin a really nice application on the digital >> social >> >> innovation site, but haven't kept the link, >> >> >> >> I would really like to have that calendar before my departure on >> August 25, >> >> so I can put my whole fall 2014 lecture schedule there, and so can you >> and >> >> others in our network, while also adding the strategic events in the >> >> broader field, >> >> >> >> shareable also have a very effective public calendar, so I copy neal >> for >> >> eventual advice, >> >> >> >> would be really nice if someone could make this happen before the 25th, >> >> >> >> Michel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Layne Hartsell < >> >> hartsellml(a)p2pfoundation.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Is this something we could do for us to see who is where, what topic >> and >> >>> date etc.? >> >>> >> >>> e.g. >> >>> Michel, Amsterdam, Sept 25 >> >>> Stacco, Madrid, xxxx >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Michel Bauwens < >> michel(a)p2pfoundation.net> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Dear Kevin, >> >>>> >> >>>> in the context of instituting a public calendar for global p2p >> >>>> activities, including those by our own network, this is a great >> >>>> presentation in my opinion, see: >> >>>> >> >>>> http://digitalsocial.eu/events >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no >> >>>> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* >> >>>> >> >>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >>>> >> >>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >> >Updates: >> >>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >>>> >> >>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > - Stacco Troncoso <http://about.me/staccotroncoso> > > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

2 3

Fwd: [Networkedlabour] [spectre] THE ART OF BEING MANY - DIGITAL READER
by Michel Bauwens 10 Aug '14

10 Aug '14

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 3:34 PM Subject: [Networkedlabour] [spectre] THE ART OF BEING MANY - DIGITAL READER To: "networkedlabour(a)lists.contrast.org" <networkedlabour(a)lists.contrast.org>, squares <squares(a)lists.takethesquare.net>, "transcollab(a)lists.so36.net" < transcollab(a)lists.so36.net> vıa Dyne.org: https://lists.dyne.org/digest/trinity-6a62575d-886b-422c-9524-8224584aad73-… DOWNLOAD THE ART-OF-BEING-MANY-READER HERE: http://the-art-of-being-many.net/wp-content/uploads/taobm_Zeitung_onlineVer… Dear friends and colleagues, dear strangers, dear manys, in September 27th and 28th 2014 artists, activists, researchers and participants from all over Europe and beyond will gather in Hamburg for an assembly of assemblies. Sharing experiences from real-democracy-movements and artistic experimentation they want to explore new ways of coming together: collective insights into the materiality, the timing, the agenda, the desires and the catastrophes of being many. At Kampnagel Internationale Kulturfabrik, geheimagentur and friends will build an assembly hall and a camp to host them. Here, the assembly will become a laboratory of itself: a collective of friends and strangers with many voices and bodies including those of ghosts and things. BE A PART OF IT! FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PROGRAM - CLICK HERE: http://the-art-of-being-many.net/wp-content/uploads/taobmflyer.pdf FOR REGISTRATION/TICKETS - CLICK HERE: https://shop.jetticket.net/kampnagel/CategorySelection.aspx?msg=0&ret=2&eve… Attention: Book early, number of participants is limited! FEEL FREE TO CIRCULATE! _______________________________________________ NetworkedLabour mailing list NetworkedLabour(a)lists.contrast.org http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0

Re: [P2P-F] [P2P-es] Método colectivo para moderar a Willi y Quiliro en la lista (propuesta)
by willi uebelherr 09 Aug '14

09 Aug '14

Estimado Fabio, te doy gracias por su respuesta. Estoy de acuerdo con usted. Creo que, esta lista no es un lugar para los procesos constructivos. Por lo tanto mi deseo de iniciar la lista P2P-F-es. Todavía estoy esperando la respuesta de Quiliro y otros amigos. Estoy escribiendo esto en estas listas a dar esta información a todos los amigos. En mi correo "Fwd: Palestina, P2P y el Estado" ya he esbozado. Estamos buscando las respuestas para nuestra pregunta central: "¿Cómo queremos vivir". Actuamos como caminantes que quieren cruzar un territorio extenso y desconocido. Ellos seleccionan su destino lejos en el horizonte. Así que ellos son libres para adaptarse a las condiciones topográficas locales. Siga las estructuras y condiciones, sin luchar contra ellos. Se comportan como el agua que siga su camino con cuidado. Si podemos formular nuestros objetivos y visiones, entonces empezamos a buscar las maneras allí. La gente en las diferentes regiones van diferentes maneras. Si estamos de acuerdo en nuestras metas, entonces vamos a cumplir. Las metas, nuestras visiones y perspectivas, nos da la seguridad en la orientación. Sin las metas, sin visión y perspectivas, perdemos la orientación. Todos los procesos y resultados que se presentan en esta discusión, vamos a resumir juntos en nuestra propuesta para un nuevo mundo. Documentamos nuestras visiones e ideas sobre cómo podemos estar cerca de ellos. Por tanto, es principalmente un documento de nuestra propia determinación, el conocimiento de nosotros mismos. Instamos a todos los amigos en esta área del lenguaje, a participar en ella. Desde nuestros fundamentos filosóficos surgen nuestras visiones para un mundo nuevo. No nos guiamos por los modelos pragmáticos. Nosotros no obligamos a nosotros mismos a los dogmas religiosos de las teorías de la economía, el Estado y la propiedad privada de los recursos de la comunidad. Decidimos auto, lo que es importante para nosotros. De acuerdo con nuestros fundamentos filosóficos y nuestro conocimiento de la relatividad de nuestra existencia material. muchos saludos, willi Popayan, Colombia Dear Fabio, i thank you for your answer. I agree with you. I think, this list is not a place for constructive processes. Therefore my desire to initiate the list P2P-F-es. I'm still waiting for the response from Quiliro and other friends. I am writing this on these lists to give this information to all friends. In my mail "Fwd: Palestina, P2P y el Estado" i have already sketched it. We are looking for the answers for our central question: "How do we want to live". We act as walkers who want to cross a large and unknown territory. They select her destination far on the horizon. So they are free to adapt himself to the local topographical conditions. Follow the structures and conditions, without fighting against them. They behave like the water that go its way gently. If we can formulate our goals and visions, then we begin to look for the ways there. The people in the different regions are going different ways. If we agree on our goals, then we will meet. The goals, our visions and perspectives, gives us the security in the orientation. Without the goals, without vision and perspectives, we lose the orientation. All processes and results that arise in this discussion, we will summarize together in our proposal for a new world. We document our visions and ideas on how we can get close to them. It is therefore primarily a document of our own determination, the knowledge of ourselves. We invite all friends in this language area, to participate in it. From our philosophical foundations emerge our visions for a new world. We are not guided by pragmatic models. We do not bind ourself to the religious dogmas of the theories of economy, the state and the private ownership of community resources. We decide self, what is important for us. According to our philosophical foundations and our knowledge of the relativity of our material existence. many greetings, willi Popayan, Colombia -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [P2P-es] Método colectivo para moderar a Willi y Quiliro en la lista (propuesta) Datum: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:53:13 -0500 Von: Fabio Barone <holon.earth(a)gmail.com> An: P2P en español - Lista de correo en espa&#241 ol <p2p-lang-es(a)lists.ourproject.org> 1. Por favor paren de poner +100 o +1000 no me parece adecuado, y si no esta en ninguna netiqueta, deberia estar. Cada un@ tiene un voto 2. Siempre hay dos partes en una pelea. Mientras ya es obvio que dos personas han molestado a muchos participantes, algunos le echan aceite al fuego. Ya no pueden decir ni "a". 3. Quiliro, que conozco y comparto las voces sobre su corazón, has luchado como un animal herido, por tus ideales y tu nombre. Creo que lo mejor en este punto es que te salgas tu mismo de la lista. Talvez no te guste pero en mi opinión seria lo mas limpio. 4. Willi usted es muy inteligente y tiene mucho conocimiento, y algunas ideas muy buenas. Lamentablemente pero choca su forma de expresarse. Para la paz de esta lista, lo invito a auto-excluirse también. 5. Ustedes tendrían la posibilidad de construir mérito con acciones en otros espacios: proyectos, blogs, listas, publicaciones etc. Estoy seguro que todo mundo estaría muy contento de cooperar con ustedes de nuevo desde nuevos puntos de encuentro. 6. Me asusto a ver como se esta tratando a recien llegados. Sin duda resultado de este capítulo desafortunado. Por favor todos se calmen. 7. No tengo ninguna autoridad y hablo por mi mismo. No haré ninguna otra contribucion a este asunto. On 9 Aug 2014 10:12, "Natalia Pérez" <natiperez(a)linuxmail.org> wrote: > Hola > > +1000 a esto > > ---- Diego> no tienes ninguna autoridad moral en esta lista. Has > llegado hace MENOS de 24 horas. Los archivos de la lista son > abiertos. Si te interesa bucear en el coflicto tienes todos los > archivos disponibles. > Suerte. > > De hecho esta discusión debería resolverse, principalmente, entre los > miembros activos de esta comunidad, de la que infelizmente yo no soy > parte, pues he estado de oyente durante meses. Infelizmente, he visto > actuar a Diego en otras listas, con la misma prepotencia de ser > "autoridad moral". > Aviso para los administradores, no le den bola a Diego, agudizará el > conflicto > > Suerte y fuera trolls, si de algo sirve mi opinión > > Nati >

1 0

Fwd: Palestina, P2P y el Estado
by willi uebelherr 08 Aug '14

08 Aug '14

QueridAs amigAs, esta es una contribución fundamental a la lista de correo P2P-lang-es. En esta lista de todo está enfocado a la exclusión de Quiliro y yo. En el curso de esta discusión que veo la oportunidad de trabajar de nuevo en nuestros básicamente cuestiones. He utilizado esta oportunidad para mi respuesta a Mako. Tengo otra pregunta para usted. La lista P2P-lang-es extremadamente reaccionaria, autoritaria, doctrinaria y dogmática. Pero esta gente utiliza el protocolo P2P término en su nombre. Por lo tanto, el contenido se tira contra el suelo. Por eso propongo que hemos creado una nueva lista de correo electrónico para P2P en español, que continúa la alta cultura del discurso de la lista P2P-F en español. Por lo tanto, la lista P2P-F-ES es en el mismo servidor. Me encanta la atmósfera libre en la lista de P2P-F. Aunque Michel es muy lejano a mí, tengo un gran reconocimiento por su estilo de trabajo abierto. El tema de la lista de correo P2P-F-es debe ser el desarrollo de una propuesta para América Latina. Sirve para aclarar nuestra propia posición y desarrollar nuestras perspectivas y visiones para un mundo nuevo. A nivel regional en América Latina. Sobre la base de la igualdad de todas las personas, los bienes comunes para todas las personas y la estructura P2P. muchos saludos, willi Popayan, Colombia Dear friends, this is a fundamental contribution to the mail list P2P-lang-es. On this list all is focused to the exclusion of Quiliro and me. In the course of this discussion i see the opportunity to work again on our basically issues. I have used this opportunity for my response to Mako. I have another question to you. The list P2P-lang-es is extremely reactionary, authoritarian, doctrinaire and dogmatic. But this people uses the term P2P on their behalf. Thus, the content is pulled into the dirt. That is why I propose that we set up an new email list for P2P in Spanish, which continues the high culture of discourse of the list P2P-F in Spanish. Therefore, the list P2P-F-es is on the same server. I love the free atmosphere on the P2P-F list. Although Michel is very distant to me, I have a very great recognition for his open work style. The subject of the mail list P2P-F-es should be the development of a proposal for Latin America. It serves for clarify our own position and develop our perspectives and visions for a new world. Regionally in Latin America. Based on the equality of all people, the Commons for all people and the P2P structure. many greetings, willi Popayan, Colombia -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Palestina, P2P y el Estado Datum: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 01:50:15 -0500 Von: willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr(a)gmail.com> An: P2P foundation list es <p2p-lang-es(a)lists.ourproject.org> (en español(?) e inglés) QueridAs amigAs, abrí un nuevo hilo para esta discusión. Espero, estaremos más preparados para discutir este tema crítico. 08/08/14 00:20: Cargué los últimos mails. Muy interesante, por lo que tienes tiempo. 14 de 270 personas votan activ para la represión. 5%. La mayoría democrática? Querido Mako, que esperaba y esperaba que el término "Judios Genocidas" fue un descuido. Quiero aprovechar esta oportunidad para explicar algunos de mis principios. El título "Palestina, P2P y el Estado" puede parecer un poco extraño. La cuestión palestina es un punto focal para nuestra filosofía, nuestra ética, nuestra empatía, nuestra comprensión de las comunidades sociales. El término P2P (punto a punto, horizontal y directamente) describe un método. No describe nuestras fundaciones. Surgen de nuestra filosofía. Winston Churchill lo puso exactamente en 1937 ante la Comisión Peel a la primera Intifada 1932-1936: Discusión: El perro del hortelano (traducción de Google) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AThe_Dog_in_the_Manger "No estoy de acuerdo que el perro en un pesebre tiene el derecho final al pesebre a pesar de que pudo haber estado allí durante mucho tiempo. No admito ese derecho. No admito por ejemplo, que un gran mal tiene ha hecho a los pieles rojas de América o las personas de raza negra de Australia. no admito que un mal se ha hecho a estas personas por el hecho de que una raza más fuerte, una carrera de grado más alto, una raza más mundana sabio para ponerlo de esa manera, ha entrado y tomado su lugar". Esta es la base ideológica para el colonialismo de los últimos 2000 años. En particular, los últimos 500 años en América Latina. La base práctica es el estado con sus casos de violencia. Militares, la policía, los tribunales, las prisiones. El clip es la ley del estado romano. Con el "Acuerdo Sykes-Picot" (Sykes-Picot Agreement) en 1915 por Rusia, Inglaterra y Francia se decidió la partición de Palestina. Desde 1517 formó parte del Imperio Otomano. Para el imperialismo británico el control de Asia sudoccidental y el norte de África era de fundamental importancia. Y el Canal de Suez. La "Declaración Balfour" (Balfour Declaration) de 1917 es irrelevante. Sólo los sionistas se mueven en el primer plano. Más importante es el "Faisal-Weizmann Acuerdo" (Faisal-Weizmann Agreement) en 1919, ya que abrió un camino pacífico para el pueblo judío en el Asia sudoccidental. Pero las élites británicas y los sionistas tenían otros objetivos. En el artículo de Theo Herzl "El Estado Judío" (der juedische Staat) y en el papel de Vladimir Zeev Jabotinsky "La guerra de los judíos" (der juedische Krieg) los objetivos de los sionistas están claramente establecidos. La anexión completa de Palestina por los sionistas como una tropa frente del imperialismo británico. El "Acuerdo Haavara" (Haavara Agreement) en 1933 entre los sionistas y los nacionalsocialistas alemanes nos muestra los verdaderos intereses. Sólo las familias ricas eran de interés. Una rápida conversión al judaísmo siempre fue posible. Las mayoría pobres judíos en Polonia, Tschoslowakei y Rusia no eran importantes. Las comunidades judías siempre habían vivido libre de violencia, si exceptuamos algunos rituales religiosos. Nunca ha sido una preocupación para un estado para ellos. Aceptaron su entorno, sin participar en acciones militares. El desarrollo de la ciencia siempre fue primero. Por lo tanto, no tenían ningún interés en el movimiento sionista. Para estos "Judios reales" Israel no existe. Sólo Palestina. Pero ¿cuáles son nuestros principios? La equivalencia de todas las personas. El derecho de las personas en sus hábitats locales para determinar su modo de vida en sí. Por lo tanto, se aplica el principio de P2P en las comunidades locales. "Planeta de Comunas". Un planeta de Comunas soberanos y autónomos. Comunas son las comunidades locales con su propia economía local. Por lo tanto se convierten en económicamente independientes y por lo tanto políticamente independiente. Con estos principios, rompemos los principios de los sistemas estatales. Organizan el centralismo y la desintegración de la autoorganización local. Compuestos en base de P2P organizan la democracia y por lo tanto la disolución de los Estados. No necesitamos un ejército, no una policía nacional, no hay sistemas representativos. Necesitamos la democracia, la autodeterminación. Democracia y República Repräsentative son los dos polos, si dibujamos el sistema político en una línea. Pero la base para el diseño de este nuevo mundo es siempre la independencia local en la economía y por lo tanto en la tecnología. Los zapatistas no entiendo esto. Y sólo podemos lograr esto en común: "pensar globalmente, actuar localmente". Nuestra herramienta principal en este camino es nuestro sistema de comunicación libre y global. Internet, "la interconexión de las redes locales" (the Inter-connection of local Net-works). Nos da la oportunidad de que el libre acceso al conocimiento libre y el libre intercambio de nuestra información. Sin embargo, esto significa que tenemos que hacer los componentes de estos sistemas en sí mismos. Y para eso necesitamos nuestras propias infraestructuras técnicas. Si miramos a nuestro alrededor hoy en día en los estados del ALBA, no encontramos nada. Sólo mafia política y las estructuras del Estado fascista. Sólo el saqueo de la naturaleza y la gente en el interés del sistema financiero internacional. Sólo el apoyo de las corporaciones imperialistas. La razón de esto es simple. Las élites políticas organizan el estado en el interés de las élites internacionales de dinero en contra de "Poder Popular", en contra de la auto-organización local. Ellos quieren ser las élites sí mismos. La polarización entre "izquierda" y "derecha" en Venezuela, Nicaragua y Cuba es un fascismo organizado. "Si usted no es mi amigo, entonces eres mi enemigo." Un viejo método del derecho constitucional romano, el cristianismo y el sionismo (desde Moses Hess en el siglo 19). Nuestro lema es: "unidad en la diversidad". Una frase que Hugo Chávez ha utilizado a menudo. Él viene de un filósofo argentino. Tal vez alguien sabe su nombre. La unidad se refiere a nuestro sustento material. La diversidad es la base para el desarrollo. En la monotonía no hay desarrollo. En la diversidad surgen nuestros métodos y construcciones óptimas. En la diversidad se apoya nuestro camino a la verdad. Subcomandante Marcos tiene formularlo: "inquisitivamente buscamos nuestro camino". Sería bueno si los zapatistas realmente preguntarse en qué dirección van. Quizás Domingo nos puede ayudar en esta cuestión. Por último, nuestras consignas de Venezuela: Poder Popular o Nada! Independencia o Nada! Comuna o Nada! muchos saludos, willi Popayan, Colombia Dear friends, I opened a new thread for this discussion. I hope, we can better discuss this critical topic. 08.08.14 00:20: i loaded the last mails. Very interesting, for what you have time. 14 from 270 people vote activ for repression. 5%. The democratic majority? Dear Mako, i expected and hoped that the term "Judios Genocidas" was an oversight. I want to take this opportunity to explain some of my principles. The title "Palestine, P2P and the State" might seem a little strange. The Palestinian issue is a focal point for our philosophy, our ethics, our empathy, our understanding of social communities. The term P2P (point to point, horizontal and directly) describes a method. It does not describe our foundations. They arise from our philosophy. Winston Churchill put it exactly in 1937 before the Peel Commission to the first Intifada 1932-1936: Talk: The Dog in the Manger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AThe_Dog_in_the_Manger "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." This is the ideological basis for the colonialism of the past 2000 years. In particular the last 500 years in Latin America. The practical basis is the state with its violence instances. Military, police, courts, prisons. The clip is the roman state law. With the "Sykes-Picot Agreement" in 1915 by Russia, England and France the division of Palestine was decided. Since 1517 it was part of the Ottoman Empire. For the british imperialism the control of South-West Asia and North Africa was fundamentally important. And the Suez Canal. The "Balfour Declaration" of 1917 is irrelevant. Only the Zionists move it into the foreground. More important is the "Faisal-Weizmann Agreement" in 1919, because it opened a peaceful way for Jewish people in South-West Asia. But the British elites and the Zionists had other goals. In the paper by Theo Herzl "The Jewish State" and in the paper of Vladimir Zeev Jabotinsky "The Jewish War" the goals of the Zionists are clearly stated. The complete annexation of Palestine by the Zionists as a front troop of the British imperialism. The "Haavara Agreement" in 1933 between the Zionists and the German National Socialists shows us the true interests. Only rich families were of interest. A quick conversion to Judaism was always possible. The mostly poor Jewish people in Poland, Tschoslowakei and Russia were not important. The Jewish communities had always lived free of violence, if we except some religious rituals. There has never been a concern for a state for them. They accepted their environment, without itself participating in military actions. The development of science always came first. Therefore, they had no interest in the Zionist movement. For these "real Jews" Israel does not exist. Only Palestine. But what are our principles? The equivalence of all people. The right of the people in their local habitats to determine their way of life itself. Thus, we apply the principle of P2P on the local communities. "Planeta de Comunas". A planet of sovereign and autonomous Comunas. Comunas are local communities with their own local economy. Thus they become economically independent and thus politically independent. With these principles, we break the principles of state systems. They organize the centralism and the disintegration of local self-organization. Structures on the basis of P2P organize the democracy and thus the dissolving of States. We do not need a military, not a national police, no representative systems. We need democracy, self-determination. Democracy and reprasentative Republic are the two poles, if we draw the political system on one line. But the basis for the design of this new world is always the local independence in the economy and thus in the technology. The Zapatistas don't understand this. And we can only achieve this in common: "think globally, act locally". Our main tool on this way is our free and global communication system. The InterNet, "the Inter-connection of local Net-works". It gives us the opportunity for free access to free knowledge and free exchange of our information. However, this means that we need to make the components for these systems themselves. And for that we need our own technical infrastructures. If we look around today in the ALBA states, we find nothing. Only political mafia and fascist state structures. Only the plunder of nature and people in the interest of the international financial system. Only the support of imperial corporations. The reason for this is simple. The political elites organize the state in the interest of the international money elites against "Poder Popular", against the local self-organization. They want to be the elites themselves. The polarization between "left" and "right" in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba is an organized fascism. "If you are not my friend, then you are my enemy." An old method of Roman constitutional law, Christianity and Zionism (since Moses Hess in the 19th century). Our motto is: "unity in diversity". A sentence that Hugo Chavez has often used. He comes from an Argentinian philosopher. Maybe someone know his name. The unity refers to our material livelihood. The diversity is the basis for the development. In the monotony there is no development. In the diversity arise our optimal methods and constructions. In the diversity rests our way to the truth. Subcomandante Marcos has formulate it: "questioningly we search our way". It would be good if the Zapatistas really ask himself which way they go. Maybe Domingo can help us in this question. Finally, our slogans from Venezuela: Poder Popular o Nada! Independencia o Nada! Comuna o Nada! many greetings, willi Popayan, Colombia -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: 15M-p2p + movimientos red planetarios Datum: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 11:53:02 -0300 Von: MAko <diegoescalzo(a)gmail.com> An: P2P en español <p2p-lang-es(a)lists.ourproject.org> > Hola Mako, > el genocidio judío? No, el genocidio sionista. Hay que distinguir > cuidadosamente entre el sionismo y la cultura judía. > > Israel es un proyecto sionista. El sionismo es una ideología para la > expropiación de tierras en Palestina. El cristianismo es una ideología > para la expropiación de tierras en todo el mundo. Es por ello que el > cristianismo y el sionismo son tan cerca. > > Israel debe ser disuelto. No aceptamos el colonialismo. > > muchos saludos, willi > Popayan, Colombia > Si perdón, no quiero caer en confusiones. Quería referirme a la efectiva y total eliminación de dos grupos que comparten una misma patología (matar todo lo que no les guste y hacer rituales). Mi sueño o deseo para este mundo es la eliminación rápida y efectiva de los enfermos mentales que creen en algo superior para justificar como se portan, como decía mi abuela "los pies sobre la Tierra" y mi madre también me decía lo mismo, o casualidad 2 esclavas del patriarcado. Y las quiero mucho y son muy importantes para mi, pero su apoyo a cristo es algo que freno el avance y hoy lidiamos con tecnología que ya es obsoleta porque la hacen religiosos, jjaajaj. Espero no haber interrumpido tu aura, estas palabras que escribo son las mas sinceras que encontré para dejar en claro la idea, no voy a salir a matar a nadie, no me hace falta, los enfermos se matan entre ellos, y no solo tiran bombas, se chocan borrachos contra los pilares y o u otros. Gracias willi por ese mirada desde el otro lado.

1 0

important appeal by silke helfrich on the teatro valle campaign
by Michel Bauwens 08 Aug '14

08 Aug '14

An important appeal by Silke Helfrich I have the impression, that those in power - wherever it is in the world - don't wanna recognize that citizen can govern their livelihoods as commons. It seems to challenge power! That is way fighting for the commons is so important, and why supporting Teatro Valle Bene Comune is so important. Silke Helfrich, Commons Strategies Group https://secure.avaaz.org/it/petition/Italian_and_european_citizens_and_Isti… -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

1 0