August 2014 - P2P-Foundation - lists.ourproject.org

Fwd: leadership for social change
by Michel Bauwens 02 Aug '14

02 Aug '14

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jem Bendell <drjbendell(a)gmail.com> Date: Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:29 PM Subject: leadership for social change To: Michel Bauwens <michel(a)p2pfoundation.net>, Matthew Slater < matslats(a)gmail.com> the anti hero book u mentioned doesnt say much that's new but its an important topic!!! the best summary of the state of the field (which shows that there is a long tradition in critiquing heroic notions of leadership): Sutherland, N et al (2013) ‘Anti-leaders(hip) in Social Movement Organizations: The case of autonomous grassroots groups’,* Organisation*. Published online before in print. Available from http://org.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/06/03/1350508413480254.abstract -- Professor Jem Bendell Director, Institute for Leadership and Sustainability (IFLAS) University of Cumbria, UK Charlotte Mason Building Rydal Road, Ambleside LA22 9BB, UK +44(0)1539430207 http://www.cumbria.ac.uk/iflas http://www.jembendell.com http://twitter.com/jembendell http://weibo.com/jembendell -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Transnational and P2P Commons Transitions
by Michel Bauwens 02 Aug '14

02 Aug '14

Dear Orsan, it is precisely for this reason that we parted with flok in the longer term, we need to find and focus on the protocols that are necessary to retain equipotentiality in a network ... perhaps we could work together on identifying those rules ? it has been on the back of my mind for a few years, see http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Hierarchy_Theory and http://www.diigo.com/user/mbauwens/Protocollary-Power .. It seems to me that the work of Stephen Downes would be a great starting point .. http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Hierarchy_Theory?search=stephen+downe… for example: http://p2pfoundation.net/Democratic_Institutional_Design / http://p2pfoundation.net/Knowing_Networks so my proposal is to have a joint page where we can jot down the rules that maintain true distribution of power Michel <<>From the communist manifesto to first international, from Erfurt and Gotha to Comintern the discussion between theses and factions, being formed among groups of friends, based on one important but small faction or an entirely new frame of theoretical-analytical abstraction, took the conflicts between individuals and caused strong and irreversible demarcations between sppousedly emancipatory visions and energies.. May be most of the time very stupid reasons, like money, girl, ego casued these we can't now... Then we (emancipatory peopel) had reproduced the power games of rulers -can be traced easily in the tone of writings of Marx, Engels, Luxembourg, Kautsky, Lenin, Proudhon, Bakunin,... the spirit of the time is gaining respect and authority for argument was full fledged attacks on personality.. plus whatever possible, as may be a result of structural possibilities limiting communication. It killed the true spirit of revolution/emancipation as well as prevented prefigurative ethical politics as such. In my opinion this made it possible for the rulers to survive and evolve into capitalist class agency for itself and gave them advantage. Since they saw that their grave digger were also like them.. since we did reproduce the capitalist form of power accumulation. It is not possible in the same way today, p2p mode of communication allows more open confrontations and conflict resolution processes, egalitarian and ethical - prefigurative relationships, as well as checks and balances. Still there are ways and tricks to gain network power and use it against the 'lower order' nodes? so on these weaknesses there is a work to do. Yet the structurally speaking it is not impossible to solve these problems today>> -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Governance structures for the p2p-foundation
by Michel Bauwens 02 Aug '14

02 Aug '14

hi Orsan, I am personally completely overwhelmed and my moderate pushing for governance structures has not been successful, but I know Stacco in cc has been working and thinking on this lately, looking at models from enspiral, loomio and others, it would be great to formalize these processes for where they are needed, but we need help, Michel <<From: ?rsan ?enalp <orsan1234(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Transnational and P2P Commons Transitions To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation(a)lists.ourproject.org> Message-ID: <CABcnBF6Zw57TqxeAHLLGede5ryFWjO=skSy7ySnzqRkZHizUFw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 May be as at the beginning of every flos project the initators has to take the initiative, form a foundation to develop and promote the ideas in a stable line and grow. It was probably similar for the starting years of the P2P-F; I mean to prevent tyranny of structureless and grow, it was necessary to have a built in (semi-)hierarchy. I did produce a perspective on p2p, use value with an open code. And now it has already become much more than a floss project. At least it's impact is socialised, having a broader impacts. So the time, may be, has come for P2P-F to try to commonify its governance and re-design it accordingly. It might need time of course, and it surely is the work and decision of thecore founders, direct members, close affinities, and wider stake holders... still would be a challenging and epic experience for all of us! Orsan>> -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Re: [P2P-F] [Networkedlabour] Transnational and P2P Commons Transitions
by Michel Bauwens 02 Aug '14

02 Aug '14

Dear Brian, I am in full agreement with what you write here, a new K-wave is coming at some point, but I believe it will necessarily integrate key elements of the green and p2p compacts, if it wants to work .. I compare it to the 18th cy, period, one system was going down (nobility), one system was going up (bourgeoisie), with the 'absolute kings' acting as temporary arbiters as long as both forces were of more or less equal strength . but in the end, it had to be resolved by a flurry of 'phase transitions', in one country after another .. so, while police state fascism will emerge in certain contexts, it is far from sure that this will be the dominant reality (thailand is really significant here, declining nobility and bangkok middle class, facing rising rural (including enterpreneurial), working and chinese industrial class sections, neither coalition can win, so the military come up as arbitrageurs, but though they want to lock down democracy in favour of the first , the strength of the latter coalition precludes long term success); some kind of compromise is inevitable in order to pacify the social majority, it seems to me But I have one question, you say Minqi Li says there is no longer a reserve periphery .. but what about Africa ? (and the rise of latin america in the naugthies ?) http://p2pfoundation.net/Rise_of_China_and_the_Demise_of_the_Capitalist_Wor… Michel On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In the 90s, middle-classes in the overdeveloped world and > proto-middle-classes everywhere else were seduced by networked technology > to play their traditional roles as managers and consumers, despite the > fierce inequalities of neoliberalism. If a new geopolitical order is > achieved, the pervasive-computing utopia touted by people like Kaku will > again seduce many people; but it will come with even sharper unemployment > and huge environmental crises. This time, the global middle classes are > going to be clearly affected, as we move to a world of centers and > semi-peripheries, without any undeveloped peripheries to exploit any more > (that's Minqi Li's analysis, I recommend it). Already we see an ugly > future. "Perfect capitalism" shrinks the pie and poisons the sunny day when > you are supposed to eat it. One path that is already opening up to deal > with the resultant problems is the new police-state fascism. That path is > preferred by the transnational capitalist class and it is already highly > advanced, as we know. > > However, a bifurcation is possible. Its essential traits are being created > now. Of course they are yet small in scale, but that is not so surprising. > Only since 2011 have large sectors of the world population understood that > the current development path, and any future one that tries to prolong it, > is a dead end. If critical mass is built over the next ten years, our ideas > can inflect the major developments of the world system. I think this is > what Michel is talking about when he evokes the possibility of a "phase > change." It may not be an entirely new, fully non-capitalist system. But > decisive axioms could be changed, leading to much less concentration in > property and resource ownership, energy production, manufacturing, media > and education. This can only happen if a new political and ecological > philosophy, as powerful as Marxism once was, can be articulated and spread > in such a way as to inform practice. Zizek's Leninism isn't going to do it, > I am certain. > > After the 20th century and after the disastrous Arab Spring, people will > not be likely to risk total revolution. Uprisings are still important. But > not if their aims are confined to either the institution of new liberal > democracies (ie masks over the current system) or so-called proletarian > states (ie industrial developmental states ruled by party technocrats, as > in China and Russia today). Those are zombie solutions. We need to > transform our modes of producing, of managing production, and of > symbolizing what a good society is, all from the bottom up. Only such > transformations can inflect the future forms of civilization. > -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Transnational and P2P Commons Transitions
by Michel Bauwens 02 Aug '14

02 Aug '14

< Today, you can in real time collaborate with agency that would in the past seemed opponent to you politically; like Phorudon and Marx (anarchism vs communism), Lasal and Spartakists as well as Lenin and Kautsky (Socialism vs. Social Democracy), as well as all the following generations of left and progressive fracitonalism. This made possible for capitalism to assert itself as an irreversible and immortal historical structure.> Dear Orsan, I'm not sure how to understand that argument. I would say yes, networks function by affinity and seek commonality for joint action, and much of the earlier antagonisms seem antiquated. I think it is also a epistemological and multi-perspectival or trans-paradigmic issue: do we have to agree with marx 100% and reject Proudhon or rather can we expect that there is truth in various positions ? Are all the debates and antagonisms of the 19th and 20th cy fully operational today ? But I'm not sure how this is related to 'made it possible for capitalism to assert itself" How is the fact that say anarchists and communists can now talk to each other and transcend former antagonisms, related to capital's self-assertion ? I fully agree with your last paragraph: <" as long as we are doing trans-level and multi-dimentional practice of community/network building and interlinking work (allowing empowerment of ourselves and all the nodes simultaneously), it does not matter that much what we have as personal visions, preferences, expectations, predictions, so on.. about the future and nature of transition. The previous organisational forms, like part, platform, block, front, did not allow such collaborative and egaliterian ethical alliances. Now it is more possible then before, not perfectly smooth of course. With the 'quantum-logic' I was reffering this new possibility. This is an outcome of the technological-communicational paradigm shift, and at the moment it works for the advantage of the ruled, yet it might not last long."> -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/

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Re: [P2P-F] [P2P-es] 15M-p2p + movimientos red planetarios
by willi uebelherr 01 Aug '14

01 Aug '14

Texto de Bernardo Gutiérrez Movimientos red, una nueva atmósfera social www.tni.org/es/article/movimientos-red-una-nueva-atmosfera-social QueridAs amigAs, he leído el texto de Bernardo. No quiero emplearme con todas sus frases. Pero a los 2 lugares de su texto, podemos muy bien reconocer su confusión. En el párrafo 8, leemos: "El urbanista Domenico di Siena(2) marca claras diferencias entre una ‘red’ y una ‘comunidad’. La red sería “una estructura social compuesta de grupos de personas que están conectadas por uno o varios tipos de relaciones” y que comparten “conocimientos o intereses comunes”. Una red tiende a funcionar de forma horizontal, “está basada en la información y la pertenencia a la misma es flexible”. La comunidad, según di Siena, está tejida por “sentimientos de pertenencia y suele funcionar con cierta jerarquía”. En una red existe “una mayor libertad”. Las redes pueden generar comunidades. La interacción de comunidades puede componer nuevas redes. Los términos se retroalimentan. Y no son excluyentes." Creo Domenico di Siena entiende lo que está hablando. Pero Bernardo no entiende lo que está hablando. Sus conclusiones son algo más. Las redes son las conexiones de los nodos. A partir de esta definición, podemos hacer ninguna declaración acerca de su estructura interna, su apertura, su práctica de la libre circulación de la información. Incluso las listas de correo del proyecto FLOK eran redes. Pero muy autoritario y dogmático. Las comunidades necesitan mucho más. Sus bases son reales, físicamente, materialmente. Pero no podemos hacer ninguna declaración a su estructura interna. A partir de la definición de este básico, no se pueden sacar conclusiones sobre su estado interior. Los movimientos pueden ocurrir a través de redes. También fuera de las comunidades. Pero nunca una red puede crear una comunidad. Por el contrario, sí. Esta lógica de los términos no es un truco. Al totalmente desorientado usando los términos "democracia" y "revolución", podemos llegar a reconocer la necesidad de una clara usando los términos. Por "red" y "comunidad", es más simple. En la ciencia de la naturaleza, la física, tenemos las unidades internacionales. A continuación, podemos ver inmediatamente si dos variables pueden operar juntos. En nuestro campo, P2P, no existe. Tenemos que ejercer ellos mismos. Sobre esta base, se apoya el desarrollo de la lógica de Immanuel Kant. En el párrafo 13, leemos: "... Arnau Monty, otro investigador de la GRRN, pone el acento en la conexión de las prácticas: “Las formas de cooperación de los movimientos red no pasan ya por grandes dogmas ideológicos unitarios sino por conectar las prácticas”. ¿Y en qué consistiría el ‘movimiento red’ que cita Arnau Monty? ¿Qué lo diferencia del ‛sistema red’? La permanencia en el tiempo, entre otras cosas, justificaría el salto del sistema red a movimiento red." Una persona serio nunca puede producir semejante disparate. No sé en qué mundos cibernéticos Bernardo vive. Pero con la realidad tener esta Fb/Tw-Junky nada hacer. Tal vez quiera hacer a la gente a los objetos de Twitter. Con "La permanencia en el tiempo"? El gerente que actúa en segundo plano gestionar el movimiento de millones de ovejas estúpido y esta carrera en el comando? Tal vez es un sueño de Bernardo, para ser un gestor de movimiento. Pero nunca será realidad. Tal vez una película en sus sueños. muchos saludos, willi San Agustin, Colombia Text of Bernardo Gutiérrez Network movements and the new ‛social atmosphere’ http://www.tni.org/article/network-movements-and-new-social-atmosphere Dear friends, I have read the text of Bernardo. I do not want to employ me with all his phrases. But at 2 places in his text, we can very well recognize his confusion. In the 8th paragraph, we read: "The urbanist Domenico di Siena(2) establishes clear differences between a ‛network’ and a ‛community’. The network is “a social structure made up of groups of people who are connected by one or several types of relationships” and who share “knowledge or common interests”. A network tends to work horizontally, “is based on information and membership is flexible”. The community, according to di Siena, is woven by “feelings of belonging and often works with a certain hierarchy”. In a network there is “more freedom”. Networks can generate communities. The interaction of communities can create new networks. Both terms build feedback flows and are not exclusive." I think Domenico di Siena understands what he is talking. But Bernardo does not understand what he is talking. His conclusions are something else. Networks are connections of nodes. From this definition, we can make no statement about their internal structure, their openness, their practice of a free flow of information. Even the mailing lists of the FLOK project were networks. But extremely authoritarian and dogmatic. Communities need much more. Your bases are real, physically, materially. But we can not make any statement to their internal structure. From the definition of this basics, no conclusions can be drawn on their inner state. Movements can occur over networks. Also out of communities. But never a network can create a community. Conversely, yes. This logic of the terms is not a gimmick. At the totally disoriented using of the terms "democracy" and "revolution", we can very well recognize the need for a clear using of terms. For "network" and "community", it is more simple. In the science of nature, the physics, we have the international units. Then we can immediately see whether two variables can operate together. In our field, P2P, it does not exist. We have to exert themselves. On this basis rests the development of the logic of Immanuel Kant. In the 13th paragraph, we read: "... Arnau Monty, another researcher at the GRRN, emphasises the importance of practice over ideology: “The forms of cooperation of network movements no longer rely on big unitary ideological dogmas, but on connecting practices.” And what is it that defines the ‛network movement’ mentioned by Arnau Monty? What makes it different from the ‛network system’? Permanence over time, among other things, would justify the conceptual leap." A serious-minded person can never produce such nonsense. I do not know in which cyber worlds Bernardo lives. But with the reality have this Fb/Tw-Junky nothing to do. Maybe he wants to make people to Twitter objects. With "Permanence over time"? The acting manager in the background manage the movement of millions of stupid sheep and this run on command? Maybe it is a dream of Bernardo, to be a movement manager. But never it will be reality. Maybe a film in his dreams. many greetings, willi San Agustin, Colombia Am 28/07/2014 um 09:10 a.m. schrieb Bernardo Gutiérrez: > Saludos! > > Comparto algunos textos sobre movimientos red, nuevas organizaciones > políticas, auto - organización, uno de los asuntos que nos afectan a todas. > > En primer lugar, el libro *#15MP2P, una mirada transdisciplinar del 15M*, > editado por la UOC y organizado por Javier Toret, entre otras personas. > Posiblemente sea el conjunto de textos de tecnopolítica 15M más completo. > Imposible destacar apenas un texto. Me gusta mucho "Las mutaciones del 15", > de Arnau Monty (copiado en este mail), que revela un paisaje mutante, > líquido y desconcertante para los que aplican lógicas lineares. Mi texto en > el libro tiene que ver sobre nuevas arquitecturas de la protesta, > organización colectiva, ensamblaje de enjambres... > > Descarga> > http://es.scribd.com/doc/224680674/15MP2P-Una-mirada-transdisciplinar-del-1… > . > > Por otro lado, recomiendo bastante el libro de Rodrigo Nunes "*Organisation > of the Organisationless: Collective Action After Networks**", * > publicado por MetaMute con una licencia libre bien curiosa> > > http://www.metamute.org/editorial/books/organisation-organisationless-colle… > > Uno de los artículos del libro está en castellano (traducción más o menos) > está aquí>* Tres tesis sobre la auto organización * > http://www.elciudadano.cl/2013/04/02/58215/las-lecciones-del-2011-tres-tesi… > > > > Por mi parte, publiqué un artículo para el Transnational Institute de > Amsterdam titulado *Movimientos red, la nueva atmósfera social*, que navega > por las nuevas tesis de sistema red, como nuevo espacio de acción de > movimientos clásicos, colectivos y los nuevos movimientos red. Movimientos > que se definen como un espacio (Marcha de las Putas de Quito), como táctica > (black bloc) o que van más allá d ela identidad colectiva para una acción > concreta y se transforman en movimiento red (ahí la tesis. El artículo > forma parte de la serie *At the crossroads - Europe's social movements > respond > <http://www.tni.org/category/series/crossroads-europes-movements-respond> *que > va a salir en El Diagonal en español. > > Aquí mi texto > > Inglés: > http://www.tni.org/article/network-movements-and-new-social-atmosphere > Español > http://www.tni.org/es/article/movimientos-red-una-nueva-atmosfera-social > > Copio en el mail a Rodrigo Nunes (Rio de Janeiro), Arnau Monty (Barcelona), > Sol Trumbo (Amsterdam), Rosana Reguillo (Guadalajara, México), Carolina > (Berlín) y Paolo Gerbaudo (Londres), para enriquecer el debate. Invitados, > por su puesto, si quieren entrar en la lista > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/p2p-lang-es > Mientras tanto, demos al 'responder a todos', para que les llegue > > Un abrazo > Bernardo >

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