July 2009 - Solar-general - lists.ourproject.org

"Defenestra tu computadora: o echar Windows de la máquina, o echar la máquina por la ventana"
by Marcos Guglielmetti 11 Dec '11

11 Dec '11

Código Abierto y Software Libre: sus diferencias http://www.mastermagazine.info/articulo/12499.php Un modelo alternativo al canon digital y a la SGAE http://www.mastermagazine.info/articulo/12498.php ¿Qué tal si eliminamos el término "propiedad intelectual"? http://www.mastermagazine.info/articulo/12496.php "Defenestra tu computadora: o echar Windows de la máquina, o echar la máquina por la ventana" http://www.mastermagazine.info/articulo/12500.php -- -- Marcos Guglielmetti * Director del desarrollo de Musix GNU+Linux, 100% Software Libre * CD Download: (http://www.musix.org.ar/en/) * Videos, programas y otras cosas en: ftp://musix.ourproject.org/pub/musix/ * Reporte de errores a: https://www.musix.org.ar/wiki/index.php?title=Problemas-Bugs *IRC: #musix channel on freenode

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Fwd: [Asociacion] el frío y la libre copia y distribución de música
by Diego Saravia 09 May '11

09 May '11

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Quiliro Ordóñez <quiliro(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:12:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Asociacion] el frío y la libre copia y distribución de música To: ASLE General <asociacion(a)asle.ec> "Durante mucho tiempo hemos dejado la difusión de la cultura en manos de las corporaciones, tal vez porque no sabíamos cómo o no teníamos los medios para hacerlo. Hoy ése escenario ha cambiado, y ya es hora de que recuperemos la cultura para toda la sociedad." http://eriazo.blogspot.com/2009/03/la-cultura-quiere-ser-libre.html -- Saludos/Greetings Quiliro Ordóñez 593(02)340 1517 / 593(09)821 8696 http://quiliro.wordpress.com Artículos recientes: - Por que aceptar derechos de autor y patentes si no tenemos ninguna? _______________________________________________ Lista de Correo Asociacion(a)asle.ec Visite http://asle.ec/mailman/listinfo/asociacion para modificar las opciones de suscripción (suscribirse, retirarse, etc). Visite el canal IRC #asle en irc.freenode.org para consultas en tiempo real. -- Diego Saravia Diego.Saravia(a)gmail.com NO FUNCIONA->dsa(a)unsa.edu.ar

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anarquismo y google
by Diego Saravia 15 Sep '10

15 Sep '10

estos de google son terribles, ahora recibi esta publicidad, quizas alguno este interesado ---------------- Anarquismo y militancia gremial El pensamiento de Malatesta, el movimiento obrero y la coyuntura actual. Jueves 22 de Enero – 20 hs En el local de ATE-Rosario San Lorenzo 1879 Rosario, Sta.Fe Organiza: Columna Libertaria Joaquin Penina -- Diego Saravia Diego.Saravia(a)gmail.com NO FUNCIONA->dsa(a)unsa.edu.ar

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Yacy: buscador Software Libre, anónimo y sin censura
by marcos 17 Sep '09

17 Sep '09

¿Quién se prende en instalar peers de YaCy? ... Con el inesperado cierre de Wikia Search, se hace necesario buscar alternativas a los buscadores privativos y monopólicos como Google o MSN Search. Yacy es una de ellas y es quizá la mejor, nos permite navegar anónimamente y sin censura. ¿Por qué? Porque YaCy funciona desde hace bastante tiempo y con la filosofía de las redes [...] http://www.idiomalibre.com/internet/yacy-buscador-software.php "Nuestras mentes están tan colonizadas por la visión que tiene Google del mundo que al principio será extraño el sentimiento de usar otro buscador, pero el futuro de la libertad de expresión, de pensamiento y de construcción del conocimiento en Internet dependerán también de ello." -- Marcos Germán Guglielmetti www.idiomalibre.com

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blog sobre el impuestazo tecnológico
by Pablo De Napoli 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

Interesante blog sobre el impuestazo tecnológico http://no-al-impuestazo-tecnologico.blogspot.com/

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[[email protected]: Re: [hipatia] [hipocresia + mierda][[email protected]: [Solar-general] [es] Declaración de Caracas]]
by Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez 06 Aug '09

06 Aug '09

Ya lo habia mandado como forward, pero no lo he visto en la lista. Me parece importante tener la opinion de un importante hacker venezolano como lo es el amigo Ernesto. z/juan ----- Forwarded message from Ernesto Nadir Crespo Avila <ecrespo(a)gmail.com> ----- X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at hipatia.net From: Ernesto Nadir Crespo Avila <ecrespo(a)gmail.com> To: Coordinadores de Hipatia <coordinadores-hipatia(a)listas.hipatia.net> Subject: Re: [hipatia] [hipocresia + mierda][lxoliva(a)fsfla.org: [Solar-general] [es] Declaración de Caracas] X-BeenThere: coordinadores-hipatia(a)listas.hipatia.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Reply-To: Coordinadores de Hipatia <coordinadores-hipatia(a)listas.hipatia.net> List-Id: Coordinadores de Hipatia <coordinadores-hipatia.listas.hipatia.net> List-Unsubscribe: <http://listas.hipatia.net/mailman/listinfo/coordinadores-hipatia>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://listas.hipatia.net/mailman/private/coordinadores-hipatia> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://listas.hipatia.net/mailman/listinfo/coordinadores-hipatia>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> Saludos. En Venezuela pasan cosas como que el representante de la FSF de nuestro país monopoliza la agenda de Stallman, con quien puede hablar y con quien no. Incluso se de cuentos que dice que él es quien representa al SL en Venezuela y con él es que tienen que hablar sobre el tema. Hay otros cuentos que espero pronto salgan a la luz. Ernesto Crespo -- Ernesto Crespo Linux User No. 100996 Usando Debian squeeze- Kernel 2.6.26-2 http://ernesto-ecrespo.blogspot.com/ Finger Print = 66CB 6BF4 7C7C EC0E DA60 06C8 87E8 9061 C97E 7015 Por la no monopolización del conocimiento y del Software Libre. _______________________________________________ Hipatia - http://www.hipatia.net Lista de Coordinadores http://listas.hipatia.net/mailman/listinfo/coordinadores-hipatia ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: [Solar-general] [es] Declaración de Caracas
by Alexandre Oliva 05 Aug '09

05 Aug '09

On Jul 27, 2009, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez <jucar(a)hipatia.net> wrote: > Para comenzar te digo que mandare este correo a la lista con o sin tu > aprobacion ya que esto es una cosa que se comenzo publicamente, y asi en > privado estamos haciendo la cosa de cuartito. > Tambien hago un cc a hipatia pues es de interes. Despues de todo hay que > proteger a America Latina. Ok, si prefieres así, envío mi respuesta a la lista en que se empezó la discusión. Si quieres enviarla a otras listas, adelante. > don oliva se observa con beatriz. Por supuesto te refieres a una de las observadoras ex-miembros de FSFLA. http://fsfla.org/svnwiki/about/about Se notan, en el mismo conjunto de observadores, nombres como Daniel Olivera, Franco Iacomella, Marcos Guglielmetti, Christiano Anderson, Georg Greve y Richard Stallman, que supongo que conozcas, y un montón de otros que quizás no conozcas. ¿Qué conclusiones sacas del hecho de que toda esa gente está en la misma lista de nombres, y que yo y otros 9 consejeros de FSFLA están en una lista de nombres cercana a ella? >> Si tenías cuestiones con él y con Bea, esos son antecedentes históricos. >> FSFLA hoy no tiene nada que ver con la organización que ellos crearon, a >> la cual me sumé despues y ayudé a rearmar despues que salieron. > Cuando las diferencias son por cuestiones de etica y de principio, no te > parece que lo historico no existe, o que lo historico puede ser bien > actual? Pienso que exista una confusión. No se sugiere que se olviden diferencias éticas o de principio, por lo contrario. En la ética y en los principios se basa toda la filosofía del Software Libre que defendemos. Pero veo que sí hay antecedentes históricos que siguen impidiendo una buena relación entre unas pocas comunidades y la organización que hoy es FSFLA. No me excuso de mis errores en actuar de maneras que me parecían más adecuadas para promover la libertad de software, pero que por razones muchas veces allá de mi comprensión resultaron perjudiciales. Hay antecedentes históricos demasiado complejos para que yo tome posición o siquiera los comprenda suficientemente, que van allá de los efectos que creo que mis actos tendrían si los antecedentes históricos no hubieran predispuesto gente a ciertas interpretaciones, posiciones y reacciones. Lo que te pido es que no sigas transfiriendo a la conformación actual de FSFLA lo que sentías por algunos de los que han creado la primera FSFLA. Quizás yo lo merezca por mis propios errores, pero hay otros 9 consejeros, y otras decenas de observadores involucrados, cuya única falla (en lo poco que entiendo de tu posición) es que se han asociado a alguien que se ha asociado a alguien... que se ha asociado, por un antecedente histórico accidental, a alguien que opones. Por favor les respete, y no transfiera a ellos y a mi lo que sientes y piensas acerca de otros que no han formado parte efectiva de la organización ni influenciado sus decisiones hace mucho tiempo. Gracias, Un saludo cordial desde Brasil, -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer

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Re: [Solar-general] [es] Declaración de Caracas
by Quiliro Ordóñez 02 Aug '09

02 Aug '09

> > las conclusiones son que muchos han comprado espejitos. Probablemente > por estar desinformados, como sera el caso del amigo personal > Christiano, de Richard Stallman (implicado directo en el sabotage), a > Marcos Guglielmetti no lo conozco (pero tengo la impresion que la compra > de espejos tambien). Los otros que conozco y que piensas que no conozco > pienso que tambien estan alejados de las informaciones, como ser la > gente de Ecuador etc etc. En fin un buen negocio de espejos. Daniel > Olivera me sorprendio con su decision ya que el estaba al tanto de > las cosas. Segun lo que me dices tu tambien estabas sin saber y por > lo tanto tambien comprastes espejos). Bueno ... en fin , > cada cual hace lo que quiere. > La gente de Ecuador está bien informada y satisfecha de las actuaciones que ha visto desde el primer contacto que ha tenido con FSFLA. No conocemos de las aciones de FSFLA antes de establecer contacto con ella en el 2008. La posición de FSFLA (aunque no estoy hablando en representación de ella) en la actualidad es colaborativa y busca ayudar con todo proyecto que considere que vaya en el mismo sentido que ella. Esa posición de FSFLA está basada en los principios establecidos en http://fsfla.org y cuida mucho que su posición no sea planteada por una sola persona sinó por el consenso de los miembros del consejo ayudado de las sugerencias de los observadores. Es la organización más horizontal que conozco. Los espejos se venden con facilidad a quienes no investigan a fondo los hechos e inmediatamente se expresan y actúan sin meditarlo mediante prejuicios. En Ecuador hemos investigado esta organización a fondo para comprometernos con ella y aportar de la mejor manera a un objetivo común, la Libertad. Quienes consideren que pueden unirse a esta crusada o que nosotros podamos unirnos a la suya estaremos prestos a ayudar y ser ayudados. Quienes consideren nuestros objetivos incompatibles, simplemente pedimos que nos permitan avanzar por nuestro lado. Es mejor trabajar por objetivos propios que en contra de los objetivos de otros y por eso hemos tomado la iniciativa de ese modo. -- Saludos/Greetings Quiliro Ordóñez 593(02)340 1517 / 593(09)821 8696 http://quiliro.wordpress.com "Sólo cuando el último árbol esté muerto, el último río envenenado, y el último pez atrapado, nos daremos cuenta que no se puede comer dinero"

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(mas jugo :)[Fwd: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs?]]
by Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez 01 Aug '09

01 Aug '09

va cc para Rafael Bonifaz To: team(a)fsfla.org From: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Organization: Free thinker, not speaking for FSF Latin America Subject: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> The Caracas Declaration brought about some significant amount of noise from our usual friends in Argentina and elsewhere. Hipatia's Juan Carlos Gentile didn't miss a beat before attacking us, SOLAR's Martín Olivera disputed our legitimacy, misunderstood and questioned the misunderstood suggestion of setting aside long-past historical differences, and SOLAR's Diego Saravia insisted on the agreement that he wanted us to sign with SOLAR long ago. http://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/solar-general/2009-July/050104.html http://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/solar-general/2009-July/050109.html http://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/solar-general/2009-July/050126.html My first reaction to the thought of the agreement with SOLAR was the same as then: what's in it for us, what would the point be? But then I started pondering that RMS has managed quite a feat in his upcoming visit to Argentina, getting both groups to play along sort-of together, I thought we might use this very opportunity to establish a truce in Argentina. Say, rather than an agreement with SOLAR, we could suggest a multi-party agreement, with both SOLAR and Vía Libre in Argentina, FSFLA and other FSFes that got involved in the mess, and maybe even Hipatia. The agreement might be as simple as a commitment to mutual respect and recognition for each others' relevance, and some wording about encouraging, supporting and maybe even cooperating in activities that promote software freedom. If such an agreement comes about, it might cancel out much of the resistance that FSFLA encounters in Argentina and Uruguay, and the scenario may be further opened for cooperation between organizations that have failed to cooperate because of personal issues between some of their leaders, and we accomplish that remaining neutral rather than taking sides. If any of the organizations steps back, well, too bad, but it's not us who rejected an honest attempt at cooperation for our shared goals. Thoughts? -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.134 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.134 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.535, BAYES_00=-2.599] From: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> To: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Reply-To: rms(a)gnu.org List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> Say, rather than an agreement with SOLAR, we could suggest a multi-party agreement, with both SOLAR and Vía Libre in Argentina, FSFLA and other FSFes that got involved in the mess, and maybe even Hipatia. The agreement might be as simple as a commitment to mutual respect and recognition for each others' relevance, and some wording about encouraging, supporting and maybe even cooperating in activities that promote software freedom. It seems like a good idea to try. But I suggest trying first for just SOLAR and FSF-LA. Trying to convince SOLAR and Via Libre to bury the hatchet may be too difficult. When Spanish is written in anger, it tends to leave gaps which normal speakers can fill in, but I can't. I expect I would find it very difficult to read and understand their postings. So I don't plan to try to read it on my own. What grounds did they give for their attack? Are there any specific points they made that I should know about in order to understand the situation? Please do consider their points to see if any is partly valid and might suggest an improvement for FSF-LA. _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599] To: rms(a)gnu.org From: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Organization: Free thinker, not speaking for FSF Latin America Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> On Jul 29, 2009, Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> wrote: > What grounds did they give for their attack? Historical artifacts of the way FSFLA was established. Alleged discussions and dissentions about creating an FSF in the region, and how it should be arranged, that predate by years my involvement with FSFLA. Legacy of members long left, guilt by association, and closed structure. Lots of distrust, focus on the issue of your canceled speeches for Madres de la Plaza de Mayo, accusations that all we do is publish uninvited announcements. > Please do consider their points to see if any is partly valid > and might suggest an improvement for FSF-LA. Most of all, I think we need to do a better job communicating what we do, so that it becomes more obvious that we are not quite as dead as they might wish we were ;-) They're right that our structure is not as open as an association that anyone can join and vote, but that's as it should be. At least I don't see any way around it. They assume continuity which I personally dispute. How can we be held responsible and be required to make up for things that were done before we existed, before any of the current members joined the organization? Even more so when all the records of “FSF de los Pampas” were erased, and we effectively started from scratch in December 2006. -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.13 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.13 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.531, BAYES_00=-2.599] From: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> To: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Reply-To: rms(a)gnu.org List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> They assume continuity which I personally dispute. How can we be held responsible and be required to make up for things that were done before we existed, before any of the current members joined the organization? Even more so when all the records of FSF de los Pampas were erased, and we effectively started from scratch in December 2006. Perhaps they do not realize that FSF LA effectively started from scratch in December 2006. _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.628 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.628 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] To: rms(a)gnu.org From: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Organization: Free thinker, not speaking for FSF Latin America Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> On Jul 30, 2009, Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> wrote: > They assume continuity which I personally dispute. How can we be held > responsible and be required to make up for things that were done before > we existed, before any of the current members joined the organization? > Even more so when all the records of FSF de los Pampas were erased, > and we effectively started from scratch in December 2006. > Perhaps they do not realize that FSF LA effectively started from > scratch in December 2006. Indeed. They explicitly reject this notion, claiming we inherited all the history associated with the name, and therefore we're responsible for making up to them for whatever other groups that used the same name, and did to them, even before they created the organization with that name. It seems very insane to me, but they seem quite set on that line of reasoning. It seems like they want so badly for someone to pay back to them that they can't let it go of us :-( Under this light, it was certainly a mistake to try to have some appearance of continuity. But I'm not sure that announcing we were starting from scratch, leaving behind even the public web site and past annoucements and writings, would have been enough to clear up their obsession. The name FSFLA itself is cursed, they say ;-( -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.126 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.126 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.527, BAYES_00=-2.599] From: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> To: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva(a)fsfla.org> Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Reply-To: rms(a)gnu.org List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> It seems very insane to me, but they seem quite set on that line of reasoning. It seems like they want so badly for someone to pay back to them that they can't let it go of us :-( Under this light, it was certainly a mistake to try to have some appearance of continuity. But I'm not sure that announcing we were starting from scratch, leaving behind even the public web site and past annoucements and writings, would have been enough to clear up their obsession. The name FSFLA itself is cursed, they say ;-( Don't worry about it. Indeed. They explicitly reject this notion, claiming we inherited all the history associated with the name, and therefore we're responsible for making up to them for whatever other groups that used the same name, and did to them, even before they created the organization with that name. If they said this in a public message, it should be easy to show that it not valid criticism. But it is better just to ignore them unless a lot of others start paying attention. _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599] From: Quiliro Ordóñez <quiliro(a)gmail.com> To: rms(a)gnu.org Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> 2009/7/30 Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org>: > It seems very insane to me, but they seem quite set on that line of > reasoning. It seems like they want so badly for someone to pay back to > them that they can't let it go of us :-( > > Under this light, it was certainly a mistake to try to have some > appearance of continuity. But I'm not sure that announcing we were > starting from scratch, leaving behind even the public web site and past > annoucements and writings, would have been enough to clear up their > obsession. The name FSFLA itself is cursed, they say ;-( > > Don't worry about it. > > Indeed. They explicitly reject this notion, claiming we inherited all > the history associated with the name, and therefore we're responsible > for making up to them for whatever other groups that used the same name, > and did to them, even before they created the organization with that > name. > > If they said this in a public message, it should be easy to show > that it not valid criticism. > > But it is better just to ignore them unless a lot of others start > paying attention. I agree but we should make a final public anouncement portaying our position showing a good disposition for agreement and taking into account their concerns. -- Saludos/Greetings Quiliro Ordóñez 593(02)340 1517 / 593(09)821 8696 http://quiliro.wordpress.com "Sólo cuando el último árbol esté muerto, el último río envenenado, y el último pez atrapado, nos daremos cuenta que no se puede comer dinero" _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team X-Account-Key: account2 X-Mozilla-Keys: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ututo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-100 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599] From: Beatriz Busaniche <bea(a)vialibre.org.ar> To: rms(a)gnu.org Organization: Fundación Vía Libre Cc: team(a)fsfla.org Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? X-BeenThere: team(a)fsfla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Reply-To: bea(a)vialibre.org.ar List-Id: <team.fsfla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/team> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team>, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe> El mié, 29-07-2009 a las 16:14 -0400, Richard Stallman escribió: > Trying to convince SOLAR and Via Libre to > bury the hatchet may be too difficult. Actually, Vía Libre has unilaterally buried the hatchet years ago. SoLAr, on the other hand, continues to publicly slander Vía Libre and its members (with special emphasis on Fede and me) every chance they get. And if they don't get a chance, they make one up, as it has just happened. So you don't need to worry about Vía Libre: we have a long track record of not responding to aggression, no matter how uncalled for. We just prefer to keep our distance from that particular group, because we've been burned way too often. My personal experience tells me that it is useless to attempt to have a rational dialogue with SoLAr, but maybe FSFLA must learn from its own experience. Bea _______________________________________________ Team mailing list Team(a)fsfla.org http://www.fsfla.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/team ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: Declaración de Caracas
by Quiliro Ordóñez 01 Aug '09

01 Aug '09

Veo que hay mucho dolor y resentimiento que hace que Solar tenga un afán constante de ofender a quienes formamos parte de la FSFLA. No hablo por otros. Hablo por mì mismo y no en representación de FSFLA pero me siento ofendido personalmente y en mis amigos. Yo era partidario de sugerir que se integre a quien quiera pero no voy a votar por colaborar con quien no busque un sincero entendimiento y que más bien busque cualquier oportunidad de ofender a quienes hemos llegado a ofrecer nuestra sincera colaboración. Entendería que si están ofendidos con una razón válida que amerita un disculpa formal por parte de la organización, la actitud no sería ofensiva sinó más bien explicativa y buscando un entendimiento. Este asunto me ha desgastado bastante y me ha ocupado mucho tiempo. Espero que hagan una declaración más puntual y sin ofensas si en realidad son la parte ofendida. Una declaración que manifieste lo que desean y cómo podemos cooperar mutuamente sería deseable. Si son los ofensores supongo que seguirán ofendiendo porque eso es lo que hacen los ofensores, ofender. Con relación a este asunto no haré más comentarios aunque sinceramente espero que la Patria Grande si sea una realidad en un futuro cercano. -- Saludos/Greetings Quiliro Ordóñez 593(02)340 1517 / 593(09)821 8696 http://quiliro.wordpress.com "Sólo cuando el último árbol esté muerto, el último río envenenado, y el último pez atrapado, nos daremos cuenta que no se puede comer dinero"

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