January 2009 - kune-devel - lists.ourproject.org

Repesando Affero en las librerías
by Vicente J. Ruiz Jurado 18 Mar '09

18 Mar '09

Muy buenas: Estos días currando con Dani hemos estado hablando sobre una propu que hice hace semanas, a saber: - Seguir usando affero para kune y emiteui - Usar otra licencia más "relajada" como la apache2 para las librerías: emitelib, y suco. ¿Why? Bueno, pues creo que la Affero viene muy bien para todo lo que sea servicios web (como kune y emiteui). Y la apache puede venir muy bien para las librerías, porque necesitamos que se use mucho, que la gente las extienda, les añada XEPs, etc., y que ande todo lo finas que puedan funcionar. Usando Affero en las librerías, el uso que hace la gente en mucho menor, la librería van a estar menos madura, y al final, eso repercute en que kune funcione peor. También es una pena que un trabajo tan fino como es emitelib o suco no se aproveche más. Lo comento porque estamos poniendo a punto suco para darle difusión (hasta ahora no lo hemos hecho), y vemos como la gente (incluso la gente de GWT) está intentando resolver problemas que suco ya resuelve con alegría. GWT usa la apache... ¿Opiniones a favor/en contra? Abrazos, -- Vicente J. Ruiz Jurado http://homes.ourproject.org/~vjrj/blog http://ourproject.org "Why should I be worried about dying? It's not going to happen in my lifetime!” [Raymond Smullyan]

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Estoy siendo cansino ya...
by Samer 27 Jan '09

27 Jan '09

Bueno, gente, a mi juicio la fase de feedback debería ir tocando a su fin. Estaría bien que alguien más dejara algún resumen de comentarios que hayáis recibido por vuestros lados, que al final yo estoy monopolizando el tema (ya paro, ya paro jeje). Respondí al mail de Bastien con algunos comentarios rápidos, y me acaba de contestar. No es tan revelador como el primero, pero para quien quiera seguir el hilo... On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 20:15, Bastien Guerry <Bastien.Guerry(a)ens.fr> wrote: > hello dude, > > Samer <samer2004(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > Waoh Bastien, great feedback!! Thanks a lot! I was really looking forward > to it > > and, as expected, you didn't disappointed me :) > > Thanks! But I'm also late... > > > I guess many people will want to test Kune after viewing this. > > > > Mmm hope so. Specially if RMS is one of them ;) > > Well, you know RMS is not browsing the web. The web comes to RMS! > Sometimes he fetches a webpage with wget, but that's it. :) > > > - the musique is a distraction. Why don't you use the voice, as in > any > > screencast? Yes, it's hard to do, but it's easier to concentrate > on. > > > > Mmm... we like the music ;) And anyway we don't have a good English > accent to > > talk with... > > Com'on, english is not a language anymore, it's just a way to pass on > messages, slogans, ads! > > > - What's the purpose? Advertisement or tutorial? It's a bit too big > > and to detailed for an ad, but it is "showing off" too much for a > > tutorial. I suggest you do a 5 minute ad concentrating all the big > > messages (it's enough to make people want to try) and 5 min tutos on > > specific features or use case. > > > > Good point... anyway this should be just for developers and involved > activists, > > not for general public... the idea was to do a short video, but we wanted > to > > show it all, and it extended more and more :) And the purpose was, > basically, > > "convince" that kune deserves to exist and it is needed. > > Mmhh... Kune exists, doesn't it? So you don't need to convince anyone > it "deserves" it. As for the need, users define it, not you. I think > you should better think in these terms : What is our tool? Who are our > users? The trick is that, at the end of the film, *I* will be convinced > that *I* am a potential user... it's just a matter of perspective, it's > a bit communication bullshit but hey, that's what we're talking about... > > > If we do as you say... does it make sense, to split it into two like > that? It > > would repeat content inevitably, but it's true that with different > purposes... > > i have to discuss it with Vicente, but it is a very good point. > > > > - Would be better if people could have a better idea of the > difference > > with other tools. What's the difference with a wiki? What's the > > difference with Moodle? Drupal? Facebook? Being free software is a > > difference, it might be enough for some devs. Usability is another > > one, and the video shows it adequately... but what other deep diff > > with other available tool ? > > > > Do you think that this should be included here (made more obvious)? We > thought > > about it, but leaving it to a version of the video for the general public > > (maybe when the public part is ready, to show both sides). > > Yes... maybe that's just a FAQ point, not something to show in a video, > that's right. > > > Is it not clear > > enough for a developer, those differences? > > Something popping up in my mind: what about Kune's modularity? The > presentation shows Kune can aggregate/integrate a lot of tools, but > developers like modularity (don't they)? > > > - After 4:45, we understand how to create and edit a space, but we > don't > > have a precise idea of how this space looks like for people on the > web > > (outside the admin interface) (See diapo 8:32) > > > > Yes, that part of the implementation is still not ready :) > > :) > > > - The chat feature looks really great. The video should demonstrate > a > > real use case - in what occasion is that really necessary to chat > with > > your group? > > > > You are right. I'm glad you like it! Here http://emite.ourproject.org/ > you > > can try a demo of the chat part, it is a library, "emite", we programmed > (here > > "we" should be "they", though... i didn't... but "we" as ourproject :) > > Very nice work! > > Possible extension of the Chat utility: make it a tool to take notes > during a meeting. Something where someone can define topics, where > the logs can be exported in .odt (with user-defined sequences, maybe > corresponding to the topics...) -- I don't have a precise idea of what > I am talking about, but I'm sure there is something to do. > > > - I wouldn't put kune is not for you... even technical reasons are a > > bit too much for such a video. This is good in a faq, but not in a > > video. (Again, if you answer the question: is this an ad or a tuto, > > you will naturally strip this kind of slide...) > > > > As i mentioned, we wanted to "convince", so the more arguments in favour > of its > > "deserve to exist", the better. The "kune is not for you" is a discussion > of > > Vicente and me heheh, now i have an extra argument to remove it (and to > leave > > it maybe in a video for the general public). The technical reasons i like > them, > > though, even if it's a "long ad"... i don't know. > > The technical reasons are okay, people will pause on the video to read > them. > > > - "Community supported": how big the community? > > > > Mmm... if we count only comitters/developers... three? xD But it's going > to get > > bigger soon... > > modularity! > > > or at least its what some friends told me :P Anyway obviously > > we won't say "supported by 3 people". We wanted to leave clear that there > are > > no companies supporting it. > > Yes. Which becomes a rare sign of independance! > > > We are now collecting the feedback of this draft video. After, we will > make a > > better version of it, upload an updated version of the webpage > > kune.ourproject.org and we'll be ready. Then you can spread it around, > and > > we'll send an email to RMS. > > What do you expect from RMS? Maybe there should be some kind of essay. > « We need a free software to support social freedom and activism. » Or > something like that. Then show RMS that there are too many proprietary > tools to support social activism (like Facebook?), and to few tools like > yours... which I think is THE point. > > > Btw, for preparing the webpage, we prepared these two documents (wiki-ed > while > > we prepare them): > > http://admins-op.wikispaces.com/AboutKune_v2 > > http://admins-op.wikispaces.com/SupportKune > > > > Could you take a look on them? > > I will during this week. (...) -- Samer http://ourproject.org "No son tiempos para hacer cualquier cosa"

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Feedback: capítulo XLVII
by Samer 22 Jan '09

22 Jan '09

Curioso, curioso. Otro experto en el rollito web 2.0 coincide en varias cosas con Bastien, sin estar en contacto... Sólo estoy mandando recopilaciones o mails interesantes. Muchos repiten argumentos, pero la reacción es muy positiva :) Aquí va: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 13:34, Dario Taraborelli wrote: > looks good to me, > > a few random comments: > > - soundtrack is really sloppy and distracting - looks like background music > in my dentist's waiting room. It makes the full presentation look slower > than it is. > > - it would be much better IMO to have a reassuring male voice with a > Spanish accent instead: just remove the text slides and describe what you > are doing while you do it. > > - the video is *very* long as a teaser, you should have a short and sexy > presentation plus a number of short "howto" clips showing how specific > features work > > - spellcheck - I think I've seen something like "Simone can creates" > > Although "cuni" in French is a popular sexual practice involving female > genital organs, the infrastructure looks really impressive, congrats! To > make it really flexible I think you should allow users to customize the full > CSS+HTML template of their homepage and showcase a few sexy themes. What > package did you use for the CMS features? > > Good luck > > D > > -- Samer http://ourproject.org "No son tiempos para hacer cualquier cosa"

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Conversiones
by Samer 21 Jan '09

21 Jan '09

Hace un tiempo hablé con Vicente de la dificultad de conversiones de un formato wiki a otro (MoinMoin a MediaWiki, por ejemplo). Lo mismo sucede con blogs, foros o lo que sea: en cuanto usas un CMS o similar para gestionar tus contenidos, el tránsito de tus contenidos antiguos a otro distinto es pseudo-imposible. Viene al caso porque con kune, el material de los proyectos actuales de ourproject se quedarán descolgados. Además, si hubiera una vía sencilla para importar proyectos ya montados en kune, la base de posibles usuarios se ampliaría enormemente (no sólo nuevos proyectos, sino proyectos existentes que quieran aprovechar la nueva plataforma sin perder nada). Pues bien, a pesar de mis reticencias a depender de Google, estos acaban de sacar una aplicación interesante (sí, es software libre): "Google Blog Converters", para pasar los contenidos de un servicio a otro. Tb permite importar/exportar a cualquiera que cumpla el API. Puede ser muy interesante, ¿no os parece? http://softlibre.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=09/01/12/1551223 Aunque para mí que el principal problema es el contenido wiki, que ata más que el contenido de un blog. Hay alguna cosa: HTML->wiki dialects (MediaWiki, MoinMoin, WikkaWiki...) http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTML-WikiConverter/lib/HTML/WikiConverter.pm MediaWiki->HTML http://toolserver.org/~merphant/wiki2html/ http://tpokorra.blogspot.com/2007/11/html2wiki-wiki2html.html ¿Comentarios? -- Samer http://ourproject.org "No son tiempos para hacer cualquier cosa"

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Vídeo/Presentación de kune, enero-2009
by Vicente J. Ruiz Jurado 21 Jan '09

21 Jan '09

Queridos: Samer y un servidor de ustedes acabamos de terminar este vídeo: http://blip.tv/file/1646241 Dani ha estado también ahí entre bastidores apoyando ;) El vídeo lo hemos hecho para circularlo entre amigos antes de limar las últimas cosas con comentarios vuestros y darle más difusión (por ejemplo presentárselo a la FSF). Está destinado a desarrolladores, organizaciones y grupos de organizaciones (como el FSM) que puedan estar interesados en nuestro trabajo, y a personas con suficiente iniciativa como para crear un proyecto o un grupo en Internet. No es tanto para todos los públicos. Así que comentarios muy muy bienvenidos (tanto si os gusta algo como si os disgusta o no entendéis algo). Un abrazo, y feliz año, Vicente PD: Javier, el vídeo está hecho con kdenlive esta vez...;)

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Fwd: Finally, kune video-presentation
by Samer 20 Jan '09

20 Jan '09

Y más feedback :) El esperado mail de Bastien. El tío es un crack y habría que tener muy en cuenta sus opiniones (aunque discrepo en varias). De hecho, junto con Stallman, él es otra muy buena baza para el proyecto (está muy metido en el tema, en la FSF y como desarrollador...). ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bastien Guerry Date: Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 14:51 Subject: Re: Finally, kune video-presentation To: Samer Hi Samer, as promised, some feedback about the video. First of all, kudos! It looks great and contains a lot of information. I guess many people will want to test Kune after viewing this. And now some criticism: - the musique is a distraction. Why don't you use the voice, as in any screencast? Yes, it's hard to do, but it's easier to concentrate on. - What's the purpose? Advertisement or tutorial? It's a bit too big and to detailed for an ad, but it is "showing off" too much for a tutorial. I suggest you do a 5 minute ad concentrating all the big messages (it's enough to make people want to try) and 5 min tutos on specific features or use case. - Would be better if people could have a better idea of the difference with other tools. What's the difference with a wiki? What's the difference with Moodle? Drupal? Facebook? Being free software is a difference, it might be enough for some devs. Usability is another one, and the video shows it adequately... but what other deep diff with other available tool ? - The example of Simone: what is the goal of Simone? What does she expect from using this? Why is she not satisfied with other tools? - After 4:45, we understand how to create and edit a space, but we don't have a precise idea of how this space looks like for people on the web (outside the admin interface) (See diapo 8:32) - The chat feature looks really great. The video should demonstrate a real use case - in what occasion is that really necessary to chat with your group? - Slides at 10:28 and 10:58 contains a bit too much... or maybe you can underline some keywords to ease the reading. - I wouldn't put kune is not for you... even technical reasons are a bit too much for such a video. This is good in a faq, but not in a video. (Again, if you answer the question: is this an ad or a tuto, you will naturally strip this kind of slide...) - About the novelty: speak less about them, show them more! (You could actually show *only* this, that would be appalling enough...) - Slide at 12:03: still in alpha and... "very advanced"? - "Community supported": how big the community? - just wondering: is there a "mailing list" feature (which lets you contact everyone in your/other group(s) by email?) Good job dudes! Tell me when I can buzz around this on mailing lists... best, -- Bastien -- Samer http://ourproject.org "No son tiempos para hacer cualquier cosa"

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Estudio jurídico licencias
by Samer 20 Jan '09

20 Jan '09

Estudio jurídico sobre licencias FLOSS en España (incluye la GPLv3 y nuestra Affero v3). Mola. http://espana.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=09/01/19/1645208

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Más feedback
by Samer 19 Jan '09

19 Jan '09

Muy buenas :) Están insistiendo en algunas cosas que yo creía que quedaban claras en la presentación, jummm... Más que he recibido: - Poner traspas de "por qué esto es mejor que Facebook", "Why kune is for you" etc etc etc al principio. No sé, es un debate que habíamos cerrado, ahora dicen que se entendería por dónde van los tiros y se vería con otros ojos el vídeo. - Y el rollo de poner ejemplos populares y sus diferencias con ellos, más explícitas, lo haría más "terrenal". Me sugieren que se explique al principio algo rollo "qué aporta respecto al Messenger, Facebook, Google Docs...". Aunque quizá esto vendría mejor en una versión del vídeo "para todos los públicos". - Lo de elegir "project" o "community" no se entiende. - No se pilla bien (a pesar de que se explicita) lo de que se presenta la parte del workspace pero no la parte pública. - La música tiene más adeptos que detractores :) Y además, transcribo íntegro el feedback de un colega polaco, para tomar nota: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Maciej M. Latek Date: Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 20:18 Subject: Re: Please, check it out Samer First, I must admit that I'm impressed with the way Kune looks and works. I heard that GWT is powerful, but did not suspect that such a small team would be able to accomplish so much: would you care to estimate how many work hours were devoted to this project? Second, I hope that you do not have expectations of only praise from such an old grizzled man like me, so I will cut short and ask following: 1. This thing is to be deployed by the end-user on it's own desktop or would an community server be supported? 2. If it is supposed to be deployed by the end-user, you would be hard pressed to point to advantages over other open-source CMS system (I have some experience with Joomla (great, and those thousands extensions for it, including all the blogs and social networking features) and one thing for class management moodle, which sucks). Of course, I might be missing something, but at least you could build a table what is in Kune that is missing from, say, Joomla? Is it just the hippy/anarchist/leftist feel to it with plenty of licences to choose from, or something that GWT enables AJAX/php doesn't? 3. One big red flag: can a user subscribe to a page to get automatically notified about the changes to it (like RSS / Trac feeds)? And where is my SVN (right, I know you might be targeting different crowd)? 4. Would I be able to use / reuse as plugins other GWT applications? Like stuff from my igoogle homepage? 5. How do you expect to compete with assembla where I get all the features and server space for free (for users if not money)? 6. Would you be able to point me to a website / existing online community which would be better off migrating to Kune? As You see, those are mostly framing questions, in terms whom exactly Kune targets and what incremental benefit it offers over existing solutions / whether you can reuse community effort from other projects in an effortless manner. And, of course, those are just my random issues and feel free to disregard them. Once again, great job and my best regards, Maciek

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Primeras impresiones
by Samer 13 Jan '09

13 Jan '09

Guay, guay. Ya van llegando las primeras reacciones al vídeo. - Unos colegas 3Dseros/diseñadores gráficos se han ofrecido para hacernos diseños chulis: logos vectoriales, iconitos y tal. Es un punto que le falta a kune y creo que puede venir de pm. - Un buen amigo quiere intentar meterse con el código en febrero (el que te comenté, Vic). - Impresiones típicas: las traspas van mu rápido y no se lee a tiempo; la usabilidad es la hostia; se le ve muy potente; reacción muy positiva. - Comentarios aislados: " Se parece mucho a Gmail"; "va rápido, importante"; "Quizá cierta pobreza de opciones, pero supongo que como la idea es que cualquiera utilice la plataforma, es comprensible"; "Quizá un cambio entre la página personal y la de los grupos en cuanto a estética sí que ayudaría a diferenciar una cosa de la otra."; "la música pasada 3 minutos es insufrible, aunque sea Gilberto Gil."; "Pero es un CMS q tienes q instalar tú, o unos servicios que usas online?"; "el logo es parecido al de Ubuntu, no?"; "el diseño torcido del fondo de las traspas raya pasado un rato". Próximamente, más. -- Samer http://ourproject.org "No son tiempos para hacer cualquier cosa"

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[ kune-issues-187 ] Add some content indexing enhacements
by noreply＠ourproject.org 05 Jan '09

05 Jan '09

issues item #187, was opened at 2009-01-05 18:07 You can respond by visiting: http://ourproject.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=139&aid=187&group_id=407 Status: Open Priority: 2 Submitted By: Vicente J. Ruiz Jurado (vjrj) Assigned to: Nobody (None) Summary: Add some content indexing enhacements Initial Comment: - Support of "tags:" "group:" ala google's - Content titles seems that are not indexed. - Auto add wildcard (now only works exacts matchs of words). - Better render of results in searcher dialog (easy). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: http://ourproject.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=139&aid=187&group_id=407

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