[P2P-F] "Le travail dans la sortie du capitalisme" - Jean Zin

[Michel Bauwens]

it will get worse before it gets better <g>

we have to start constructing sustainable alternatives right now, with the
resources at our disposal,

it is unlikely that times will get 'better' in the near term ...

p2p is both a passionate choice and a necessity for survival,

Michel

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> we have access to the technology.
>
> the proprietary software exists, for use by multinationals,
> for example - SAP : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_AG ;
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_ERP
>
> ( I am not a specialist in SAP )
>
> We have access to the internet ( for how long till it gets further
> "filtered" ? )
>
> We have the technology to build a more distributed internet,
> and we have the skills to build a libre software for resource allocation
> and alternative forms of emergent governance and finance...
>
> So... I agree.
>
> We can do it.
> We are doing it.
>
> But not with much/enough resources,
>
> hence one of my priorities being to support approaches that make it easier
> to converge resources and enable such forms of distributed organization.
>
> I personally do this while struggling for my own survival.
> And I am aware a number of people sharing such intentions,
> including some more technically skilled then me ( such as certain
> programmers )
> struggle for surviving while pursuing development of libre approaches.
>
> Hopefully not for too long...
>
>
>
> 2011/7/9 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>
>> I disagree, we really have all we need to work together globally ...
>>
>> if multinationals can do it, why not we?
>>
>> we now have access to superior technology than most multinationals had 15
>> years ago,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> 2011/7/9 Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>
>>> yes, my interpretation is that it depends on our capacity to set up
>>> information systems to (self) organize.
>>>
>>>
>>> a suggestion :
>>>
>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Transaction_Graphs
>>>
>>> if there is no opportunity / tool for more complex information systems
>>> for alternative meta-data / vectors to be used as "stigmergic" tool,
>>> it may be easier to use face to face , possibly lower complexity,
>>> economies... as suggested by Jean Zin ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/7/9 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> I actually disagree with Jean Zin when he says that there is 'only
>>>> localization' and not other forms of 'alterglobalization' that are in our
>>>> interests ...
>>>>
>>>> as christian arnsperger says, 'selective localization, responsible
>>>> deglobalization' (or the other way around?) ...
>>>>
>>>> there must be room not just for global immaterial commons, but also for
>>>> global economic phyles ..
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/7/8 Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jeanzin.fr/index.php?post%2F2010%2F09%2F10%2FLe-travail-dans-la-sortie-du-capitalisme
>>>>> ( Jean Zin )
>>>>>
>>>>> voir aussi :
>>>>> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/contents/
>>>>> ( Kevin Carson )
>>>>>
>>>>> //
>>>>>
>>>>> Jean Zin :
>>>>>
>>>>> "On ne s'en tirera pas en se tournant les pouces. Il y a tout un
>>>>> travail à faire pour sortir du capitalisme et qui consiste principalement à
>>>>> organiser le travail en dehors du capitalisme et donc du salariat,
>>>>> donner les moyens de passer du travail forcé au travail choisi, *libération
>>>>> du travail* *comparable à l'abolition de l'esclavage et que certains
>>>>> appellent un peu rapidement la fin du travail alors que ce n'est que la fin
>>>>> (relative) du salariat et du marché du travail.*"
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *...*
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *"Il n'y a que des alternatives locales à la globalisation marchande<http://jeanzin.fr/ecorevo/grit/altern.htm>,
>>>>> c'est notre réalité, notre environnement, c'est le territoire qu'il nous
>>>>> faut réhabiter et qui nous ramène sur terre, y compris dans les rapports
>>>>> avec nos concitoyens."*
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *"équilibrer la globalisation marchande par une relocalisation de
>>>>> l'économie et des alternatives locales dans une économie plurielle<http://jeanzin.fr/index.php?post/2009/09/07/Un-seul-monde-plusieurs-systemes>,
>>>>> au lieu de rêver à une conversion planétaire de l'humanité toute entière à
>>>>> une nouvelle religion écologiste ou quelque autre conception totalitaire qui
>>>>> voudrait arrêter l'histoire, contrôler nos désirs et uniformiser le monde."
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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