it will get worse before it gets better <g><br><br>we have to start constructing sustainable alternatives right now, with the resources at our disposal,<br><br>it is unlikely that times will get 'better' in the near term ...<br>
<br>p2p is both a passionate choice and a necessity for survival,<br><br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">we have access to the technology.<div><br></div><div>the proprietary software exists, for use by multinationals,</div>
<div>for example - SAP :�<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_AG" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_AG</a>�;�<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_ERP" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_ERP</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>( I am not a specialist in SAP )</div><div><br></div><div>We have access to the internet ( for how long till it gets further "filtered" ? )</div><div><br></div><div>We have the technology to build a more distributed internet,</div>
<div>and we have the skills to build a libre software for resource allocation and alternative forms of emergent governance and finance...</div><div><br></div><div>So... I agree.</div><div><br></div><div>We can do it.</div>
<div>We are doing it.</div><div><br></div><div>But not with much/enough resources,</div><div><br></div><div>hence one of my priorities being to support approaches that make it easier to converge resources and enable such forms of distributed organization.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I personally do this while struggling for my own survival.</div><div>And I am aware a number of people sharing such intentions,</div><div>including some more technically skilled then me ( such as certain programmers )</div>
<div>struggle for surviving while pursuing development of libre approaches.</div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully not for too long...</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2011/7/9 Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">I disagree, we really have all we need to work together globally ...<br><br>if multinationals can do it, why not we?<br>
<br>we now have access to superior technology than most multinationals had 15 years ago,<br><font color="#888888"><br>Michel</font><div><div></div><div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/9 Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
yes, my interpretation is that it depends on our capacity to set up information systems to (self) organize.<div><br></div><div><div><br>
a suggestion :</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://sharewiki.org/en/Transaction_Graphs" target="_blank">http://sharewiki.org/en/Transaction_Graphs</a></div></div><div><br></div><div>if there is no opportunity / tool for more complex information systems for alternative meta-data / vectors to be used as "stigmergic" tool,</div>
<div>it may be easier to use face to face , possibly lower complexity, economies... as suggested by Jean Zin ?<div><div></div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/9 Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">I actually disagree with Jean Zin when he says that there is 'only localization' and not other forms of 'alterglobalization' that are in our interests ...<br>
<br>as christian arnsperger says, 'selective localization, responsible deglobalization' (or the other way around?) ...<br>
<br>there must be room not just for global immaterial commons, but also for global economic phyles ..<br><br>Michel<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/8 Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><a href="http://www.jeanzin.fr/index.php?post%2F2010%2F09%2F10%2FLe-travail-dans-la-sortie-du-capitalisme" target="_blank">http://www.jeanzin.fr/index.php?post%2F2010%2F09%2F10%2FLe-travail-dans-la-sortie-du-capitalisme</a>� ( Jean Zin )<div>
<div><br></div><div>voir aussi :�<a href="http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/contents/" target="_blank">http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/contents/</a>� ( Kevin Carson )</div>
<div><br></div><div>//</div><div><br></div><div>Jean Zin :<br><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">"</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">On ne s'en tirera pas en se tournant les pouces. Il y a tout un travail � faire pour sortir du capitalisme et qui consiste principalement � organiser le travail</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">�</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px;">en dehors</span></span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">�</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">du capitalisme et donc du salariat, donner les moyens de passer</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">�</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px;">du travail forc� au travail choisi</span></span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">,</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">�</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px;">lib�ration du travail</b></span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">�</span><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><i>comparable � l'abolition de l'esclavage et que certains appellent un peu rapidement la fin du travail alors que ce n'est que la fin (relative) du salariat et du march� du travail.</i>"</span></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><br></span></i></div><div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;">...</span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><br></span></i></div><div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><span style="line-height: 20px;">"Il n'y a que des�<a href="http://jeanzin.fr/ecorevo/grit/altern.htm" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px; color: rgb(68, 153, 51); text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">alternatives locales � la globalisation marchande</a>, c'est notre r�alit�, notre environnement, c'est le territoire qu'il nous faut r�habiter et qui nous ram�ne sur terre, y compris dans les rapports avec nos concitoyens."</span></span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><br></span></span></i></div><div><i><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 14px;"><span style="line-height: 20px;">"</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 20px;">�quilibrer la globalisation marchande par une relocalisation de l'�conomie et des alternatives locales dans une�<a href="http://jeanzin.fr/index.php?post/2009/09/07/Un-seul-monde-plusieurs-systemes" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px; color: rgb(68, 153, 51); text-decoration: underline;" target="_blank">�conomie plurielle</a>, au lieu de r�ver � une conversion plan�taire de l'humanit� toute enti�re � une nouvelle religion �cologiste ou quelque autre conception totalitaire qui voudrait arr�ter l'histoire, contr�ler nos d�sirs et uniformiser le monde."</span></i></div>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
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</font></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
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