[P2P-F] zeitgeist, what to watch

Fri Jan 21 16:56:18 CET 2011

could you describe in a little more detail, that 'scholar' and what he
should be thinking ?

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:14 PM, robin <robokow at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > robin, you writre:
> >
> >> I really wish the guy had done a course on the roal of "unifying"
> >> ideologies in world history before commencing his movies, and how not
> >> to base these in so-called fundamentals or rules you find in nature.
> >> Because you can find any rule, which will support whatever you want to
> >> believe in "life" and in "nature".
> >
> > well, that is the old concept of dharma, the tao etc... which traditional
> > societies believed, but they were also mostly sustainable (not always
> > locally, but at least could not endanger the whole planet)
>
> Yes, which sums up my point. "The" Tao can be used by different
> political philosophies from social to individual anarchism,
> laissez-faire economics, (neo-)liberalism, social-democracy, etc. And
> in Dharma, there can be very rigid forms of hierarchy.
>
> Thus, any "rule of nature" can be manipulated to serve your own
> world-view. For good and for worse.
>
> > so there is something to be said for an approach that recognizes the
> logic
> > of life and nature, on which society and mind depends,
>
> Maybe. But definitely not if you create an ideology out of that which
> you then enforce onto others (which is the case with most ideologies).
> Also nazism is based on a certain logic of life and nature. May be a
> bad logic and scientifically incorrect but still it is based around a
> conception of "fundamentals" of nature and life, and for many these
> were not even "unscientific" in those days.
>
> And also Buddhist have been staging war
> http://www.google.com/search?q=Buddhism+and+violence
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Buddhism
>
> >
> > the question is, is this possible not as a belief and preconceived
> > philosophical system, but as some kind of science, like the
> > biophilic/scientific approach to urbanism, as proposed by say Nikos
> > Salingaros,
>
> Yeah, why not. As long as the rules of the game are open-source, there
> is trial-and-error in place and we are free to adapt ;-)
>
> By the way, wasn't there a discussion once on this list on the
> adaptibility of human nature and how this cannot be seen as a "fixed
> constant" but something that changes due to ethical, social, and
> political praxis (economic and religious being part of that) ?
>
> That's an interesting point since all(?) ideologies are based on a
> specific conceptualisation of human nature which in their turn, as far
> as I am aware, are more or less fixed constants/ given facts.
>
> I would like to know if there is any scholar that based its work
> around that idea, since it might also be the one that is closest to a
> p2p ideology in my point of view.
>
> Wow, we really went off-topic here, or maybe not even so :)
>
> Thanks.
>
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 7:33 PM, robin <robokow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> And I just read this quote by Peter Joseph himself:
> >> "The Zeitgeist Movement is a grass roots campaign to unify the world
> >> through a common ideology based on the fundamentals of life and
> >> nature. "
> >>
> >> I really wish the guy had done a course on the roal of "unifying"
> >> ideologies in world history before commencing his movies, and how not
> >> to base these in so-called fundamentals or rules you find in nature.
> >> Because you can find any rule, which will support whatever you want to
> >> believe in "life" and in "nature".
> >>
> >> Or maybe he did follow a course and he is involved in a conspiracy to
> >> take over the world ;)
>
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