[P2P-F] Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway

Tue Feb 22 14:04:17 CET 2011

last reply to Michel following this thread :

-------

Hi Michel

for the moment *there is no specific project.*

the interview of Michael
Hudson<http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=michael+hudson&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=>
on norwegian prime time news
( starting @ minute 20' on http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ )

makes me feel there is the potential to surf on such debate.

A debate that could include alternative financial vectors / currencies ,
local use value production, p2p cooperative ownership, etc  ??

Perhaps some well defined "research platform" business model already exists
?

I remember there was an application to a grant for a p2pf research funding ?

I also know Sam , Paul, and others are offering the approach of
http://forwardfound.org/

----------

further personal past context :

I did not go to Norway yet.

In 2009, thanks to David, I was invited at the "Kragerø Filosofen festival",
where I could have discussed some of the ideas we discuss on p2pf lists.

But at that time I needed to settle, after spending a lot of time on the
road, and decided to stay in Brussels.

Edgar Kampers <http://thebiggerpicture2009.org/speakers/edgar-kampers> was
co-organizing, and there was space to discuss alternative economics and
finance, governance, production...

as the topic was "money"

2009 archive :

http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=21&lang=en

I told Chris Cook <http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook>, and , as far as I
remember, he probably went to the Festival.

Perhaps such future festival , if it chooses to discuss topics related to
p2p,
could be a interesting opening for discussing such topics in Norway.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
 wrote:

> Hi Dante,
>
> I need to know more about this Norwegian project, before I can imagine what
> is really possible,
>
> Michel
>

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik )
>
> while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list
> (  http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation )
>
> some additional 5 cents notes -
> in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a
> potential research centre / investment scheme.
>
> I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in
> this example,
> with iceland.
>
> See Smari's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy> interview
> of Bernard Lietaer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer> :
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY
>
> Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as
> long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric,
> but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine
> cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a
> hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ?
>
> Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully
> p2p approach,
> I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on high
> energy consumption.
>
> Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by
> some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook,
> who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies
> http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269
>
> also see : http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook
>
> Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen storage
> of geothermal energy.
>
> I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in or
> co-initiates,
> leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region
> for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub.
>
> see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative>Just my 5
> cents :)
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research
>> and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value
>> oriented research centre,
>>
>> combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces /
>> alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems
>> )
>> as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase
>> inflation on existing currencies.
>>
>> I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces,
>> yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,
>>
>> and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ;
>> Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ...
>>
>> and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some
>> Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a
>> deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's
>> Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches,
>> while maintaining strategic resources owned locally
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks a lot Dante,
>>>
>>> Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about
>>> this?
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM
>>> Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in
>>> Norway
>>> To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Michel
>>>
>>> I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer
>>> production
>>> offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.
>>>
>>> I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme,
>>> which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a
>>> speculative capitalist approach.
>>>
>>> ------------------
>>>
>>> In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil
>>> wealth.
>>>
>>> On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
>>>
>>> http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
>>>
>>> excerpts :
>>>
>>> Investing "in your own economy".
>>>
>>> "Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such
>>> as Iceland )
>>>
>>> "Its all about the means of production"
>>>
>>> "The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have
>>> so much debt"
>>>
>>> "There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment
>>> itself is risky"
>>>
>>> "China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa
>>> - "
>>>
>>> "What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive
>>> economy"
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Arno Mong Daastoel <amd at daastol.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM
>>> Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt -
>>> NRK Nett-TV
>>> To: "gang8 at yahoogroups.com" <gang8 at yahoogroups.com>
>>> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <Aslak at litteraturhuset.no>, ISLET-Verlag <
>>> mail at islet-verlag.de>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <mh at michael-hudson.com>,
>>> Ursula Backhaus <ursula_backhaus at yahoo.de>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes,
>>> lasting 8+ minutes.
>>>
>>> It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the
>>> serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I
>>> record every day.
>>>
>>> http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
>>>
>>> The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the
>>> House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400
>>> listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another
>>> hall in addition.
>>>
>>> His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
>>>
>>> Arno
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