[P2P-F] Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway

Tue Feb 22 14:33:37 CET 2011

thanks dante,

Michael Hudson is indeed very interesting,

Michel

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> last reply to Michel following this thread :
>
> -------
>
> Hi Michel
>
> for the moment *there is no specific project.*
>
> the interview of Michael Hudson<http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=michael+hudson&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=>
> on norwegian prime time news
> ( starting @ minute 20' on http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ )
>
> makes me feel there is the potential to surf on such debate.
>
> A debate that could include alternative financial vectors / currencies ,
> local use value production, p2p cooperative ownership, etc  ??
>
> Perhaps some well defined "research platform" business model already exists
> ?
>
> I remember there was an application to a grant for a p2pf research funding
> ?
>
> I also know Sam , Paul, and others are offering the approach of
> http://forwardfound.org/
>
> ----------
>
> further personal past context :
>
> I did not go to Norway yet.
>
> In 2009, thanks to David, I was invited at the "Kragerø Filosofen
> festival", where I could have discussed some of the ideas we discuss on
> p2pf lists.
>
> But at that time I needed to settle, after spending a lot of time on the
> road, and decided to stay in Brussels.
>
> Edgar Kampers <http://thebiggerpicture2009.org/speakers/edgar-kampers> was
> co-organizing, and there was space to discuss alternative economics and
> finance, governance, production...
>
> as the topic was "money"
>
> 2009 archive :
>
>
> http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=21&lang=en
>
> I told Chris Cook <http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook>, and , as far as I
> remember, he probably went to the Festival.
>
> Perhaps such future festival , if it chooses to discuss topics related to
> p2p,
> could be a interesting opening for discussing such topics in Norway.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>
>> Hi Dante,
>>
>> I need to know more about this Norwegian project, before I can imagine
>> what is really possible,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik )
>>
>> while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list
>> (  http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation )
>>
>> some additional 5 cents notes -
>> in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a
>> potential research centre / investment scheme.
>>
>> I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in
>> this example,
>> with iceland.
>>
>> See Smari's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy> interview
>> of Bernard Lietaer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer> :
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY
>>
>> Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as
>> long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric,
>> but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine
>> cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a
>> hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ?
>>
>> Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully
>> p2p approach,
>> I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on
>> high energy consumption.
>>
>> Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by
>> some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook,
>> who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies
>> http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269
>>
>> also see : http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook
>>
>> Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen
>> storage of geothermal energy.
>>
>> I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in
>> or co-initiates,
>> leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region
>> for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub.
>>
>> see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative
>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative>Just my 5
>> cents :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
>> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research
>>> and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value
>>> oriented research centre,
>>>
>>> combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces /
>>> alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems
>>> )
>>> as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase
>>> inflation on existing currencies.
>>>
>>> I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces,
>>> yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,
>>>
>>> and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ;
>>> Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ...
>>>
>>> and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some
>>> Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a
>>> deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's
>>> Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches,
>>> while maintaining strategic resources owned locally
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot Dante,
>>>>
>>>> Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about
>>>> this?
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in
>>>> Norway
>>>> To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michel
>>>>
>>>> I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer
>>>> production
>>>> offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>>> I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme,
>>>> which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a
>>>> speculative capitalist approach.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------
>>>>
>>>> In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil
>>>> wealth.
>>>>
>>>> On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
>>>>
>>>> excerpts :
>>>>
>>>> Investing "in your own economy".
>>>>
>>>> "Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such
>>>> as Iceland )
>>>>
>>>> "Its all about the means of production"
>>>>
>>>> "The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have
>>>> so much debt"
>>>>
>>>> "There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment
>>>> itself is risky"
>>>>
>>>> "China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in
>>>> Africa - "
>>>>
>>>> "What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive
>>>> economy"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Arno Mong Daastoel <amd at daastol.com>
>>>> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM
>>>> Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt -
>>>> NRK Nett-TV
>>>> To: "gang8 at yahoogroups.com" <gang8 at yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <Aslak at litteraturhuset.no>, ISLET-Verlag <
>>>> mail at islet-verlag.de>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <mh at michael-hudson.com>,
>>>> Ursula Backhaus <ursula_backhaus at yahoo.de>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes,
>>>> lasting 8+ minutes.
>>>>
>>>> It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the
>>>> serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I
>>>> record every day.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
>>>>
>>>> The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the
>>>> House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400
>>>> listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another
>>>> hall in addition.
>>>>
>>>> His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
>>>>
>>>> Arno
>>>>  __._,_.___
>>>>   Reply to sender<amd at daastol.com?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply
>>>> to group<gang8 at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply
>>>> via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start
>>>> a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg-->
>>>> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->(
>>>> 1)
>>>>  Recent Activity:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8;_ylc=X3oDMTJldjNkZjZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg-->
>>>>  The gang8 list is devoted to Creditary Economics.
>>>> To unsubscribe, email: gang8-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>>  MARKETPLACE
>>>>
>>>> Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers
>>>> Center.<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15orrpln8/M=493064.14543977.14365476.10835568/D=groups/S=1705001990:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1298368816/L=c92b0280-3e59-11e0-8f4c-cb471eb89deb/B=Ut.pGEwNPVU-/J=1298361616926197/K=RtmABpwdjzRcbnK_2G_e7w/A=6078812/R=0/SIG=114ae4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.yahoo.com/>
>>>> [image: Web Bug from
>>>> https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=bsp&ver=ohhl4rw8mbn4]
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on -
>>>> Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.<http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15osabimr/M=493064.14543979.14365478.13298430/D=groups/S=1705001990:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1298368816/L=c92b0280-3e59-11e0-8f4c-cb471eb89deb/B=Ud.pGEwNPVU-/J=1298361616926197/K=RtmABpwdjzRcbnK_2G_e7w/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj>
>>>> [image: Web Bug from
>>>> https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=bsp&ver=ohhl4rw8mbn4]
>>>>   [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc2dzOWw3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjk4MzYxNjE2>
>>>> Switch to: Text-Only<gang8-traditional at yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
>>>> Daily Digest<gang8-digest at yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>•
>>>> Unsubscribe <gang8-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> • Terms
>>>> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>>>>    .
>>>>  [image: Web Bug from
>>>> https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=bsp&ver=ohhl4rw8mbn4]
>>>> __,_._,___
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> Commons Strategies Group, http://www.commonsstrategies.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
>

-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Commons Strategies Group, http://www.commonsstrategies.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20110222/1256f578/attachment.htm 