last reply to Michel following this thread :<div><br></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">-------</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br>Hi Michel<div><br></div><div>for the moment <b>there is no specific project.</b></div><div><br></div>
<div>the interview of <a href="http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=michael+hudson&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">Michael Hudson</a></div><div>on norwegian prime time news</div>
<div>( starting @ minute 20' on <a href="http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/</a> )</div><div><br></div><div>makes me feel there is the potential to surf on such debate.</div>
<div><br></div><div>A debate that could include alternative financial vectors / currencies , local use value production, p2p cooperative ownership, etc ??</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps some well defined "research platform" business model already exists ?</div>
<div><br></div><div>I remember there was an application to a grant for a p2pf research funding ?</div><div><br></div><div>I also know Sam , Paul, and others are offering the approach of</div><div><a href="http://forwardfound.org/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">http://forwardfound.org/</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>----------</div><div><br></div><div>further personal past context :</div><div><br></div><div>I did not go to Norway yet.</div><div><br></div><div>In 2009, thanks to David, I was invited at the "<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; ">Kragerø Filosofen festival"</span>, where I could have discussed some of the ideas we discuss on p2pf lists.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But at that time I needed to settle, after spending a lot of time on the road, and decided to stay in Brussels.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><a href="http://thebiggerpicture2009.org/speakers/edgar-kampers" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">Edgar Kampers</a> was co-organizing, and there was space to discuss alternative economics and finance, governance, production...</span></div>
</div></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br></span></font></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: small; border-collapse: separate; "><div>
as the topic was "money"</div><div><br></div><div>2009 archive :</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=21&lang=en" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=21&lang=en</a></div>
</span></span></div><div><br></div><div>I told <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">Chris Cook</a>, and , as far as I remember, he probably went to the Festival.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Perhaps such future festival , if it chooses to discuss topics related to p2p,</div><div>could be a interesting opening for discussing such topics in Norway.</div><div><div></div><div><div><br></div><div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
Hi Dante,<br><br>I need to know more about this Norwegian project, before I can imagine what is really possible,<br><font color="#888888"><br>Michel</font><div><div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></span><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik )<div><br></div><div>while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list</div><div>( <span style="border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136, 136, 136);font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px"> <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 204)" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a> )</span><br>
<div><br></div><div>some additional 5 cents notes - </div><div>in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a potential research centre / investment scheme.</div><div><br><div>I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in this example,</div>
<div>with iceland.</div><div><br></div><div>See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy" target="_blank">Smari's</a> interview of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer" target="_blank">Bernard Lietaer</a> :</div>
<div>
<br></div><div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY</a></div><div><div><br></div><div>Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric, but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully p2p approach,</div><div>I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on high energy consumption. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook,</div><div>who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies</div>
<div><a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269" target="_blank">http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269</a></div><div><br></div><div>also see : <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen storage of geothermal energy.</div><div><br></div><div>I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in or co-initiates,</div>
<div>leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub.</div><div><br></div><div>see : <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative</a></div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative" target="_blank"></a>Just my 5 cents :)<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value oriented research centre,<div>
<br></div><div>combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces / alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems ) </div>
<div>as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase inflation on existing currencies.<br><div><br></div><div>I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces,</div><div>yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,</div>
<div><br></div><div>and/or universities - such as in Oslo : <a href="http://www.uio.no/english/" target="_blank">http://www.uio.no/english/</a> ; </div><div>Trondheim : <a href="http://www.ntnu.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.ntnu.edu/</a> ; ... </div>
<div><br></div><div>and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches, while maintaining strategic resources owned locally </div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council</a></div><div><div></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
<div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks a lot Dante,<br><br>Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this?<br><br>Michel<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Dante-Gabryell Monson</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM<br>Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway<br>To: Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br><br>
</div><div><div></div><div><div>Hi Michel</div><div><br></div><div>I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production </div><div>offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.</div>
<div><br>
</div><div>I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, </div><div>which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach.</div><div><br></div><div>------------------</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><div><div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail_quote">In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth.</div></div><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><div><br></div><div>On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><a href="http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/" target="_blank">http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/</a></div><div><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">
excerpts :</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Investing "in your own economy".</div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">"Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland )</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">"Its all about the means of production"</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">"The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt"</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">"There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky"</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">
"China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - "</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">"What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy"</div>
<div><div></div><div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Arno Mong Daastoel</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amd@daastol.com" target="_blank">amd@daastol.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM<br>
Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV<br>To: "<a href="mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gang8@yahoogroups.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">gang8@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <<a href="mailto:Aslak@litteraturhuset.no" target="_blank">Aslak@litteraturhuset.no</a>>, ISLET-Verlag <<a href="mailto:mail@islet-verlag.de" target="_blank">mail@islet-verlag.de</a>>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <<a href="mailto:mh@michael-hudson.com" target="_blank">mh@michael-hudson.com</a>>, Ursula Backhaus <<a href="mailto:ursula_backhaus@yahoo.de" target="_blank">ursula_backhaus@yahoo.de</a>><br>
<br><br>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, <br>
lasting 8+ minutes.<br>
<br>
It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the <br>
serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I <br>
record every day.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/" target="_blank">http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/</a><br>
<br>
The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the <br>
House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 <br>
listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another <br>
hall in addition.<br>
<br>
His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.<br>
<br>
Arno<br>
</p>
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