[P2P-F] Crucial insights into egaliterian potential of the crypto-economy

Tue May 15 21:15:10 CEST 2018

thank you Arthur,

I need to see you again to understand all the added innovations in your
approach since we met in Canada ,

I am keynoting at the oxchain conference in London on 22 may

if you had any overview slide I could use that shows the power of
holo/holochain as an example of the criteria I shared earlier today, that
would be great,

just a suggestion <g>

Michel

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Arthur Brock <artbrock at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the design of Holo fuel is a disruptive non-token
> cryptocurrency pattern which transforms value producers (hosts) into
> currency issuers, but also initially ties into the mainstream economy
> through reserve accounts to help migrate value from the privatized economy
> into this new commons.  As you may know the business model of Holo is akin
> to how AirBnB eclipsed the hotel industry without ever building a hotel,
> Holo intends to leverage Holochain to eclipse the cloud hosting industry
> without ever needing to build a data center.
>
> We are also spinning up an incubator and "Commons Engine" group to take
> the tools we've built for our own currency/organizational/governance and
> provide them to new commons projects / platform cooperatives that want to
> take a similar community self-capitalization path, but use a different
> asset for the value stability (instead of hosting power, it could be food,
> housing, energy, transport, etc.).
>
> Most people haven't yet figured out quite how different this approach will
> prove to be from existing cryptocurrencies, and they're still assuming it's
> just another coin.  So we'll see how this plays out as Holo launches and
> the temporary ERC20 HOT is replaced by the value-stable mutual credit Holo
> fuel.
>
> We are even considering a slight modification to our plans to keep HOT in
> existence as the single bridge to cryptocurrency exchanges. If we take this
> approach, HOT may climb the charts to become one of the top
> cryptocurrencies. It reached #62 last week just one week after our small
> ICO and before we've really released any information that would boost the
> credibility of our project/platform.
>
> -art
>
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> hi bob,
>>
>> there are conflicts about fairness and fair rewards, which I would not
>> call capitalist infighting, since it based on feelings of justice ,
>> reciprocity etc..
>>
>> and then there are conflicts where people want more than the other, and
>> use market dynamics to get it,
>>
>> is that the case in the faircoin community ?
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 8:38 PM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that crypto currencies are taking off, and we know people who
>>> have made some money and are now trying to do things with it.
>>>
>>> We also see for example Fair.coop that is able to pay people because
>>> of their successful crypto currency, but it has also engendered a lot
>>> of infighting along totally capitalist principles. So I agree at least
>>> partly with Michael. Not everybody descended into competition, but
>>> enough to make the atmosphere smell of sulfur and brimstone now and
>>> then...
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Michel Bauwens
>>> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > there is a paradox though,
>>> >
>>> > * sovereign money is still going strong
>>> >
>>> > * complementary curriencies exist in spades, but are everywhere really
>>> > marginal
>>> >
>>> > * Crypto currencies have many problematic aspects, but they are
>>> generating
>>> > massive investments in new infrastructures
>>> >
>>> > * we have theories of what money should be, but they are not
>>> implemented ...
>>> >
>>> > in that context, taking something that seems to take root, but
>>> transforming
>>> > it to broader egaliterian interests, seems a good strategy
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Michael Linton <
>>> michael.linton at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> There's much good thinking here, but thinking still inside the old
>>> >> familiar box of asset, control, property, distribution ....
>>> >>
>>> >> So their ideas are still firmly embedded in systems of rivalrous
>>> >> competition.
>>> >>
>>> >> The ends they project can be much more easily achieved by other
>>> means. A
>>> >> few days ago on a thread about "weaponized" currencies, I wrote
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The Rivalrous and the Anti-Rivalrous | Deep Code Experiment: Episode
>>> 2  -
>>> >>> Jordan Greenhall on a roll
>>> >>>
>>> >>> STIR (2013) - the key distinction is this.  Some moneys are supposed
>>> to
>>> >>> be material in nature - and so are scarce, tokens of property.
>>> There are
>>> >>> other moneys that measure, and are not scarce at all.   Currencies
>>> that are
>>> >>> based on scarcity are de facto competitive - pointed sticks at the
>>> core.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So the new crypto-currencies are most generally weaponized, and
>>> that's no
>>> >>> country for old men like me.  My interest is in the dmz of money.
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> From where they look, this is all they are going to see.  But it's
>>> not all
>>> >> there is.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:51 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'd like to see a real life somewhat-populated with real people
>>> >>> example of how this is supposed to work and what this is supposed to
>>> >>> enable.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> > This article from Dick Bryan is the first one bringing it all
>>> together,
>>> >>> > giving clear criterial for p2p/commons oriented crypto
>>> developments, I
>>> >>> > had
>>> >>> > intuited some of them, but was not able to bring it all together
>>> yet as
>>> >>> > this
>>> >>> > author has:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > https://medium.com/econaut/what-is-a-crypto-economy-155bdbc4ab1d
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Some criteria to look for (via Dick Bryan):
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 1. "Programmable organizations enable production to be organized
>>> in a
>>> >>> > way
>>> >>> > that makes social criteria the rationale for production; not a
>>> >>> > constraint on
>>> >>> > it."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > [1]
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 2. "The rise of ‘networks’ as modes of corporate organization
>>> breaks
>>> >>> > down
>>> >>> > the conventional means that differentiate one corporation from
>>> another
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > challenges the principle of ‘competition’ as the driver of
>>> corporate
>>> >>> > rationale. These are both issues that feature prominently in
>>> >>> > decentralized
>>> >>> > applications."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > [2]
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > * 3. Mechanisms, like tokens, that allow surplus value to be
>>> retained
>>> >>> > by the
>>> >>> > workers, not capital.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > " Changes in the nature of work (precarization, casualization,
>>> >>> > subcontracting, the rise of the gig economy) see workers carrying
>>> >>> > greater
>>> >>> > risks and break down the attachment of work and living standards to
>>> >>> > employment. There is growing interest in alternative ways of
>>> organizing
>>> >>> > work." [3]
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > 4. "the real potential is cryptocurrencies as units of account: as
>>> >>> > modes of
>>> >>> > measuring economic activity that are conceived differently from
>>> those
>>> >>> > intrinsic to fiat money. Fiat money has become tied to conventional
>>> >>> > framings
>>> >>> > of profit and loss, income and expenditure, and a market-centred
>>> >>> > calculus.
>>> >>> > Non-fiat monies have the potential for developing new ways to
>>> calculate
>>> >>> > economic activity; ways that represent different social and
>>> economic
>>> >>> > values,
>>> >>> > and measure performance by criteria other than profit. Think about
>>> it
>>> >>> > for a
>>> >>> > moment. The unit of account potential signals the importance of the
>>> >>> > crypto
>>> >>> > economy developing ways (not a singular way, but coin-specific
>>> ways) of
>>> >>> > accounting and measuring the activities supported by each token.
>>> We see
>>> >>> > this
>>> >>> > as central to giving tokens a material basis in the crypto
>>> economy; not
>>> >>> > just
>>> >>> > leaving them as speculative stores of value. .... "Exchange is
>>> often
>>> >>> > between
>>> >>> > parties of unequal power, so mutual gain cannot be presumed. An
>>> >>> > important
>>> >>> > issue of the crypto economy is how blockchain can and cannot
>>> >>> > countermand
>>> >>> > asymmetrical power in trade. We see blockchain not facilitating
>>> >>> > frictionless
>>> >>> > markets but rather frictionless capital: distributed capital." [4]
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > --
>>> >>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> >>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> >>> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-fou
>>> ndation
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
>>> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> >>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >
>>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >
>>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Arthur Brock - http://www.ArtBrock.com <http://www.artbrock.com/>
>
> You probably know me as that guy who talks about currencies, social
> intelligence, agile learning, or culture hacking from: Holochain
> <https://holochain.org/>, Ceptr <http://ceptr.org/>, or MetaCurrency
> <http://metacurrency.org/>
>

-- 
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