[P2P-F] labour power as a common pool resource

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I agree with the general sentiment, that we have to marry a certain level
of equality with recognition of special effort and expertise,

but I don't think open value networks can solve this without extra
mechanisms

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 2:08 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <
tiberius.brastaviceanu at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the goal is to find a system that allows us to live within our
> means, while allowing differences in lifestyles. People should be able to
> chose their lifestyle and earn it. Yes, solidarity or support mechanisms
> are required, but I think meritocratic systems can generate a sense of
> fairness and become stable at large scale.
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
> wrote:
>
>> thanks Tibi,
>>
>> what are your thoguhts on the sustainability of lavish lifestyles and how
>> accessible they are for the whole of humanity ?
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <
>> tiberius.brastaviceanu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Michel, I think capital will be subjected to p2p because p2p has the
>>> biggest lever of power, *innovation*. This is what drives the early
>>> manifestations in Sensorica. Corporations will maintain an edge,
>>> *production*, until p2p figures out how to to that reliably and
>>> efficiently. We have very little experience with it, but I don't see any
>>> important barrier. Automation helps our cause.
>>>
>>> The natural human tendencies to control, accumulate, and live a lavish
>>> life will move within open value networks. I see early signs of it. New
>>> entrepreneurial skills are required for open value networks, and some
>>> individuals who possess them will become essential. It all depends on how
>>> well they will be able to negotiate rewards associated with their essential
>>> roles within the OVN.
>>> There are a lot of people out there that contact me/us and ask to use
>>> the NRP and implement the model. Most of them are looking for a software
>>> magical solution that can spark and sustain an open venture, until they
>>> realize that the NRP is just a tool. I tell people that they need a new set
>>> of skills in order to launch a successful peer production operation. These
>>> skills are very rare and people who have them will be able to greatly
>>> influence these new networks. I am confident that as more and more people
>>> acquire these skills the amount of influence these individuals can exert on
>>> their networks will diminish, because there are no mechanisms to preserve
>>> that power.
>>>
>>> But I am not worried about capital, as it is organized today, because it
>>> is losing its commanding height, innovation.
>>>
>>> Again today I exchanged with someone from California, a small startup
>>> that burned half of a million in grant money to get a minimal viable
>>> product out, they failed and they are now knocking on our door. These
>>> exchanges are more and more frequent! Their first attitude is to
>>> instrumentalize SENSORICA as a crowdsourcing network, while trying to hold
>>> on to the value capturing mechanisms. I tell them that they have two
>>> choices, go the Uber of innovation way, preserve their IP and later share
>>> their equity with private investors, once they reach critical mass, or the
>>> SENSORICA way (500K is plenty to get this project in orbit), and share
>>> their equity with their peers who co-develop it. They are considering
>>> SENSORICA very, very seriously, because the classical close innovation
>>> model doesn't work anymore, too slow, they risk their first to market
>>> advantage, they set themselves up for slow penetration rates, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and
>>>> wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging,
>>>>
>>>> but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact,
>>>> what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to
>>>> create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the
>>>> commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism
>>>> that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to
>>>> these platforms
>>>>
>>>> that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in
>>>> commodity labor,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <
>>>> tiberius.brastaviceanu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great
>>>>> interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the
>>>>> future of labor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my first gut reaction to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital.
>>>>> But if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer
>>>>> the same.
>>>>> Peer production networks like www.sensorica.co can be seen as new
>>>>> ways of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of
>>>>> benefits, ... All the means of production belong to individuals, are
>>>>> co-owned or are under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are
>>>>> shared according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an
>>>>> accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are
>>>>> thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of
>>>>> intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I
>>>>> see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are
>>>>> driven by the crowd, for the crowd.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized
>>>>> crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then
>>>>> labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and
>>>>> rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you
>>>>> may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of
>>>>> forces.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition
>>>>> disappears.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital
>>>>> being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience
>>>>> with servicing corporations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some links
>>>>>
>>>>> Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions
>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit>
>>>>> On redistribution of resources
>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>>> michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks Tom,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <lumpoflabor at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time
>>>>>>> on the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework
>>>>>>> that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd:
>>>>>>> https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for-the-Good-Society
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>>>>> michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could you be very specific about this Tom,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour
>>>>>>>> mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the
>>>>>>>> practicalities of how this would work ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have you looked into contributive accounting systems like
>>>>>>>> Sensorica's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how does that relate to your ideas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for example:
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations_with_Classical_Institutions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> CheckFrom: Tom Walker <lumpoflabor at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd)
>>>>>>>>         Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler)
>>>>>>>> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <
>>>>>>>> p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
>>>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>>         <
>>>>>>>> CANz+BQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM+RpD8rQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take
>>>>>>>> place. It
>>>>>>>> certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the
>>>>>>>> commons
>>>>>>>> is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work
>>>>>>>> contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A
>>>>>>>> fair
>>>>>>>> day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a
>>>>>>>> common pool
>>>>>>>> resource, however, would require the development of an entirely
>>>>>>>> different,
>>>>>>>> social accounting framework in which collective interests of
>>>>>>>> security and
>>>>>>>> community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are
>>>>>>>> prioritized. I've
>>>>>>>> written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>> Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu>
>>>>> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value
>>>>> network (or open enterprise)
>>>>> co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new
>>>>> economy
>>>>> founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>:
>>>>> informing the new multitude
>>>>>
>>>>> Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about>
>>>>> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu
>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184>
>>>>> Twitter  @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu>
>>> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value
>>> network (or open enterprise)
>>> co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new
>>> economy
>>> founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>:
>>> informing the new multitude
>>>
>>> Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about>
>>> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu
>>> <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184>
>>> Twitter  @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>> http://commonstransition.org
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu>
> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value network
> (or open enterprise)
> co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new economy
> founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>:
> informing the new multitude
>
> Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about>
> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu
> <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184>
> Twitter  @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
>



-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org


P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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