[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] The class structure of the "solidarity economy" or any alternative community

Sun Aug 14 16:48:58 CEST 2016

thanks for putting time in this ... (though I was asking for evidence of
gulen support for jason bourne movies <g>)

I have a quite different interpretation of bourne ... the assange and the
girl are portrayed sympathetically, the CIA is presented as entirely led by
crooks at all levels, with a few ethical lone riders being fought by the
system .. but I guess that's a matter of interpretation

I retain from your arguments that you see there are two factions in the
ruling class, including a more liberal one, which is entirely plausible,
but that the evidence for the concrete links you assume have be researched,
which is fine,

I think the overall strenghts of the arguments would be stronger without
these leaps,

Michel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The hard evidence for such stuff can come from insiders. May be p2p
> open intelligence guy (Robert Atllee?), or John Robb, or their contact
> in special operation units, or intelligence could give better insight
> about how these things work. In case you have time to go through, such
> evidence is for long is made public by wikileaks. This is one single
> example about Turkey and Gulen:
> https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/37/379052_fw-ct-former-
> turk-intel-guy-says-gulen-is-cia-front-in.html
>
> This is Graham Fuller, CIA regional desk director for middle east
> -based in Turkey for long, on Gulen:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/graham-e-fuller/gulen-
> movement-not-cult_b_11116858.html
>
> To compare Gulen with the Moon cult:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon
>
> Also please google, or search wikileaks files on Gulen, Vatican, and
> Moon relationships.
>
> But I think anyone can try to develop clearer and informed argument,
> using scattered intelligence on rulers and their global operations.
>
> Which would takes a good article; in the end no one would read, or get
> it, or don't want to get it :) as in Dmytri's article case, articles
> can not change the world.
>
> As for the moment, I can remind and try to compile some of the
> different posts and links I shared in various context, while they were
> all inter-related to me. They were linking, in my mind, or mapping the
> historical inter-related developments of military deception, special
> operation units, organisational science, TNCs and supply chains,
> complex systems management, behavioural social-mass-movement
> management (as in Canvas - Otpor story), and finally today's big data
> based Minerva projects as complementary operations to PRISM and
> others.
>
> Gulen and Moon is extremely important, since they were 'left projects'
> of radical democracy: known as long march through the institutions.
> Rulers, get these left-'radical' reflections and implement them. In 30
> years, Gulen occupied all high ranks at state institutions; starting
> from armed forces, army and police, and jurisdiction and education.
> Now they have been every where. The guys, both were related to Gladio,
> and were prominent anti-communists; both become global liberal
> religious 'movements'.
>
> May be historically 'liberal' activists, as you see them as part of
> the 'left', as in the US mainstream media and commonsense, Gulen and
> Moon are used for soft-religious movements in Islamic and eastern
> christian worlds. unification Church of Moon, or 'Dialogue' between
> Religions project of Gulen, have been part of surrounding China, and
> Russia since the end of 90s. In a sense, the rock-star left-activism
> of Bob Geldof, Bono, Angelina Jolie, John Cossack, or Matt Damon for
> that matter, is very related to the liberalism of Moon and Gulen. Not
> in terms of radical social system change at all, but liberally
> conserving or managing the complexities of the change process; so that
> any change would not dis-allow 'being' famous, or 'being' millioners
> -in which to them there is nothing wrong; but exactly because of this
> they fell on the 'right' today, instead of 'left'.
>
> I think Peter and you mean well, when you argue, for 'Dialogue', or
> possibilities that are independent from what is being calculated,
> choreographed, executed, or screened, as part of any ruling class
> project or 'plots', as 'UBI' or 'Commmons', or 'Green New Economy',
> neo-keinesianism so on; since nothing can be totally calculated there
> can be positive and unexpected outcomes coming about. I think, no one
> would disagree with this.
>
> Yet, both in your arguments one can not hear about the limitations and
> structural strait-jackets designed and put on such unexpected
> 'anomalies', or dangerous social complexities tried to be manged. I
> would recommend you Pasquinelli's writings on 'systemic anomaly'
> tracing algorithm as a supporting evidence about the size and scope of
> the modern Panopticon; or clashes of Panopticons.  I think what is
> thought as power of liberal democracy, in political-philosophical
> sense, also reflects its biggest weakness. In relation to your
> question Michel: 'how and why would CIA fund or back movies that
> destroys its image?' this point is essential to grasp (not sure if you
> watched any of the Bourne or Bond movies): any total or out-come
> message sent by these movies is not serving to destruct the image of
> the CIA, at all. In opposite it provide clearing for first 'liberal
> democracy' in the US (as it remained at all), and then the truly
> patriotic soul-elements within CIA that are constantly treated by
> individual free riders, criminals, wrong doers; and blocked by them to
> serve and save their country. This is not a destruction of the public
> image of the CIA, opposite it is a part of deceptive image-cleaning
> operation, imho.
>
> As, in the scene, where Bourne meets someone appears in a terrorist
> outlook, even darker skin, but who clearly represent Assange, wants to
> expose 'all misdoing and fucked up institutions of the system'; and
> Bourne clearly accuse him by exploiting the informant girl -just
> killed by criminals running the 'agency- and he says he is not on
> 'their side'. Then there is the Google guy, whose owning the Deep
> Dream, which got allowed by criminal aspects in CIA to be billioner,
> and in returned asked to create 'Iron Hand' structure, to be able to
> follow and record all private and public communication. Clearly film
> represents the reality, as the CEO stands with CIA-gang, and good
> guys, like the owner of Google, Bourne, and idealist potentially new
> female candidate for directorship of the agency forms an alliance for
> the future. There is no place to Assange, so he gets killed by Bourne
> after he tries to get the files by killing him.
>
> At a time internal fighting between the almost equally forces of
> liberal and conservative ruling class fractions, such in-fights derail
> the legitimacy of the entire system. Then out of the widening cracks,
> there emerges right wing and fascist alternatives, in the midst of
> increasingly delegitimation of the parlimantair liberal democracy;
> casued by the publication of the darkness of the rulers through their
> countering accuasations via films, media services, news, public
> debates so on so forth. This constitute the weakness of the
> power-balance, that is perceived as 'liberal democracy' to masses.
> When this balance is broken, to a level, and losing control becomes a
> real threat for liberals (as for conservatives) then they call for
> stronger but domesticated 'left' voices, public figures, religious
> cults... so on. Again look at Fuller's and other CIA linked
> intellectuals writings for regional or world politics. To me, Matt
> Damon, Bono, and other left-activists are popularising figures what
> Graham Fuller was wishing more (left movement in Turkey). I would
> argue, this is not a call, this is a talk in operational terms, and
> they make this call globally and in general.
>
> People like Fuller, knows that system without alternative is doomed to
> collapse, and they want to create and manage the emergence of
> left-alternatives. Weather p2p, commons, new economy,.. they want to
> be in charge in the creation of The Next System.
>
> O.
>
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> in
>

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