[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] The class structure of the "solidarity economy" or any alternative community

Sun Aug 14 07:58:37 CEST 2016

I have experienced this dichotomy 'in the flesh' by rearing my 2nd set of
children in thailand's original attachment parenting style, and my first
two in the european 'new age re-invention of attachment parenting' style
... in reaction to my own nearly opposite experience <g>

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:

> Yes I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between west and others, just that
> west child rearing culture is only one I'm familiar with.
>
> On Aug 14, 2016 4:41 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Anna,
>>
>> are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich at all .. some
>> interesting hypotheses in his work which echo what you are saying
>>
>> and are you familiar with the Institute for Psycho-History ?
>>
>> Their history of child abuse is amazing, but also interesting because it
>> breaks down the dichotomy between, the west is bad and based on domination
>> vs the rest where all is good,
>>
>> see http://www.primal-page.com/psyhis.htm
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I find this discussion very interesting, though haven't had time yet to
>>> respond.
>>>
>>> "I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of
>>> your experiences."
>>>
>>>
>>> The traits you are describing run deeper than class, though they do have
>>> something to do with how we judge some classes better than others. So eg
>>> working class is more honest, more down to earth, more on the same level,
>>> upper class more arrogant, more rigid, more bigoted. But we also know these
>>> are caricatures, and easily reversed in practice.
>>>
>>> I think what is here being described has to do with 'morality',
>>> something we rarely talk about because it borders on religion. Peer to peer
>>> attracts us because it is nearer to 'all of us being equal in the eyes of
>>> God'. This has nothing to do with a belief in God, but something to do with
>>> what Peter describes as "a dialectical and holistic disposition toward
>>> global social emancipation".
>>>
>>> This also connects with Orsan's concern that people who appear to be 'on
>>> our side' are being used/funded by people with different intentions.
>>>
>>> I've recently been reading neurobiologist Darcia Narvaez book
>>> 'Neurobiology and the Development of Morality'. https://www.goodrea
>>> ds.com/book/show/18378036-neurobiology-and-the-development-
>>> of-human-morality
>>>
>>> What is clear from her research is that if a baby's needs are not met,
>>> eg if it is left to cry itself to sleep, which is a common practice in many
>>> western cultures, it is imprinted with the experience of a hostile world,
>>> which can affect its development and produce mental problems such as
>>> anxiety and depression later in life. The importance of the parent child
>>> bond in mitigating such experiences, and the resources that a baby brings
>>> with it, inherited and its own personality, all blend to produce a person's
>>> identity, which as you say, may be changed with difficulty.
>>>
>>> There is a growing movement which sees the necessity of welcoming the
>>> newborn with positive experiences, to counteract what appears to be the
>>> 'natural' tendency towards aggression and insecurity in our culture.
>>> Narvaez makes it clear that this needs to be a community effort, it cannot
>>> be done alone.
>>>
>>> See the 20 presenters at the upcoming conference at Findhorn, Healthy
>>> Birth, Healthy Earth.  https://hbhe.co/presenters/
>>>
>>> Anna
>>>
>>> On 13 Aug 2016, at 10:44, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:51 AM, peter waterman
>>> <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Are these classes a cause of their behaviour or a result thereof?
>>>
>>>
>>> At least related, I think.
>>>
>>> And, in
>>>
>>> any case, are these 'classes' or 'identities'? I mean in any conventional
>>>
>>> definition of classes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's more complicated. If you believe in intersectionality in
>>> the bell hooks sense (and I do) and in relationships of domination vs
>>> relationships of partnership as described recently in this list (and I
>>> do), then in the capitalist system you got polarities of domination
>>> and subordination around gender, wealth and relations of production,
>>> and culture/race.
>>>
>>> People's individual personalities are formed in some interacting
>>> combination of whichever positions in the two or three of those poles
>>> they were enculturated in.
>>>
>>> And it gets even more complicated than that.
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to account for some phenomena in some way that is
>>> discussable without writing a book.
>>>
>>> Secondly, what DO you do?
>>>
>>>
>>> http://mikorizal.org
>>>
>>> Maybe I would either belong to or become a member
>>>
>>> of the preferred class.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not pointing fingers.
>>>
>>> I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of
>>> your experiences. You can consciously change some of them through
>>> struggle from and social practice with your comrades, but it ain't
>>> easy.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to connect to what I think I perceive in some of Orsan's
>>>
>>> posts. This is a different angle on what Orsan has been talking about,
>>>
>>> but I think it is connected and I think the subject line might be
>>>
>>> closer to the essence.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have recent experience with very different groups that we have
>>>
>>> worked with in our "solidarity economy" software experiments. None of
>>>
>>> which shall be named. Yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some people in some groups have this sense of entitlement, as if we
>>>
>>> are their employees or they are our customer, rather than us all being
>>>
>>> peers in an open source project.
>>>
>>>
>>> They complain a lot. Occasionally they offer helpful suggestions, but
>>>
>>> mostly they like to complain. Sometimes when they do make suggestions,
>>>
>>> they are way beyond anything that could be implemented, and if
>>>
>>> implemented, they would not be able to use the results because the
>>>
>>> results would be beyond their competence.
>>>
>>>
>>> They are arrogant. They assume they our intellectual superiors. They
>>>
>>> claim to have abilities that in subsequent events they fail miserably
>>>
>>> to demonstrate.
>>>
>>>
>>> We meet other groups where people claim to want to collaborate but
>>>
>>> fail to do so. Often they are credentialed academics, and we are not.
>>>
>>> (I don't even have a college degree. The horror!) They want to publish
>>>
>>> papers in proprietary journals which will advance their careers. We
>>>
>>> are not helpful in that pursuit. They also assume they are our
>>>
>>> intellectual superiors.
>>>
>>>
>>> We work with other groups who do not feel so entitled. Who are eager
>>>
>>> to collaborate. Who jump in and work on the software. Who not only
>>>
>>> suggest improvements to the software, they jump in and make the
>>>
>>> improvements themselves! What a concept! Like a real open source
>>>
>>> project!
>>>
>>>
>>> It is so nice. Really.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we have class differences at work here. What do you think?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list
>>>
>>> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Click here for Peter's recent writings
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>> http://commonstransition.org
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>
>

-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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