[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] An Open Letter to the Fabian Society (was: Re: New models of leadership)

[Anna Harris]

Yup!

> On 4 Aug 2016, at 12:20, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 6:05 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> well, if I'm not mistaken, Orsan is the only one who depends directly on the
>> capitalist marketplace,
> 
> Lynn and I do, too, indirectly. We live on US Social Security, which
> was extracted from our past paychecks. It now sorta works for us like
> a minimum somewhat guaranteed income, and if we live cheaply, it
> allows us do almost anything we want that does not cost much money.
> 
>> but I do not believe that is what motivates his
>> opposition, I find that a reductionist interpretation,
>> 
>> neither would I explain the non-binary approaches from the opposite
>> reasoning, i.e. that these views are held because of a relative independence
>> to the marketplace
> 
> I agree with Anna below, however, that enculturation in a capitalist
> marketplace affects everybody's outlook. You can conform in various
> ways, or you can resist in various ways. But it will affect you. Don't
> kid yourself.
> 
> I think it is possible to achieve some degree of personal
> transformation through struggle before the larger transformations, but
> it ain't easy.
> 
>> these reasonings may work on aggregate for structural explanations, but they
>> can't explain individual choices
>> 
>> 
>> Michel
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It often seems to me that the need to justify ones own position as opposed
>>> to, rather than in addition to, or including others, comes from the
>>> structural imperative to earn a living, which necessitates offering
>>> something different and therefore of value in
>>> 
>>> the market place. This is the inevitable concomitant of a capitalist
>>> economy which requires people to have something of value which they can sell
>>> to earn a living - labour, intellect, care, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 3 Aug 2016, at 21:31, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> One of your comments resonated with me. We have pretty much abandoned
>>> seeking funding and have also stopped responding to request from other
>>> people to help them with funding. That leaves holes. But I think we
>>> gotta figure out how to support our own activities as much as
>>> possible. I know, not always possible.
>>> 
>>> We could try dues...that's what the old Nonpartisan League did and
>>> they took over North Dakota and created the state bank, among other
>>> things.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well I was expecting you and Peter would make this warning. And this
>>> argument is about the methodology of analysis, or as Madron put it, and
>>> Fabians would totally agree 'operational complexity management'. I think at
>>> the current point of time complexity managers has more advanced tools and
>>> infrastructures to manage the complexity that  opposition forces added on
>>> the complexity created by the intra-elite struggle. On the one hand there
>>> emerges an alliance of 'delayists' (around next system project, new economy
>>> alliance, de-growth so on) and on the radical left 'acclerationists' are
>>> forming a constellation (around Negri and so on). Some from left like
>>> Michael Aalbert, and parecon, David Harvey and rabel cities, negrists or
>>> cognitive captalists 'platform cooperatvism', Eric Olin Wright and real
>>> Utopias.. are counted in the next system alliance. On the driving seat, as
>>> John Restakis prompted sometimes ago, there are networks which are funded by
>>> OAK foundation of UK Royal-state, Rockefe
>>> 
>>> llar, Ford, Soros foundation so on. These formed a founder alliance called
>>> Edge Funders, whom Michel thinks are radicals. They fund all sort of spaces,
>>> from WSF, to Left Forum, from the events Michel and Pat mentioned, to Ripess
>>> -Synergia people (social solidarity economy discourse), from TNI to all sort
>>> of movement building hubs. Yes There are contradictions every where, there
>>> is a chaos too, but also there are some orders and regularities that are
>>> telling us something, and most worrisome is no one is talking about with the
>>> fear of not getting any funding and suffer economically. That state of
>>> 'being determines the consciousness'. The more no one is willing to talk
>>> about these openly the more things go worse. That is all I wanted to say..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Orsan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 3 aug. 2016, at 22:03, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I snipped the previous contents, they were overloading my email
>>> 
>>> viewer. And deleted the WSF from the distro list so they stop
>>> 
>>> complaining at me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Orsan, I agree that alliances with aspects of the powers-that-be
>>> 
>>> pose dangers. And co-optation happens. Fortunately, they don't want to
>>> 
>>> ally with me anyway, otherwise I would need to thread some of those
>>> 
>>> needles.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would, however, repost what I understood from Peter's message. If we
>>> 
>>> are dialectical materialists, we gotta do a dialectical analysis of
>>> 
>>> all these forces and their contradictions and also and maybe
>>> 
>>> especially their internal contradictions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And even after the revolution or transformation or whatever, there
>>> 
>>> will still be contradictions. That's life.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list
>>> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
>> 
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> 
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> 
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