[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] An Open Letter to the Fabian Society (was: Re: New models of leadership)

Thu Aug 4 13:08:05 CEST 2016

very useful, thanks a lot

Michel

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Frederic Janssens <fjanss at gmail.com> wrote:

> For the general question of the 250 year old battle between revoluton and
> reformism, and possiblity or not to escape this dualist perspective; I have
> discovered and am now reading Dave Elder-Vass.
>
> http://www.eldervass.com/publications.htm
>
> I have not not read enough to know if I agree with everything, but he
> seems to have a philosophically/sociologically argued set of concepts that
> enable to escape dualism in reasonning about those matters.
> Quite compatible with what Michel and Pat try to do.
>
> I am now reading his last book :
>
> Elder-Vass, D. (2016). *Profit and Gift in the Digital Economy*,
> Cambridge: Cambridge University Press
> <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/academic/subjects/sociology/social-theory/profit-and-gift-digital-economy?format=PB&isbn=9781316509388>
> .
>
>
> Dave Elder-Vass's The Causal Power of Social Structures (2010)
>
> is available online :
> http://profs.basu.ac.ir/spakseresht/free_space/the%20causal%20power%20of%
> 20social%20structure.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 August 2016 at 22:49, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yup.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>> > It often seems to me that the need to justify ones own position as
>> opposed
>> > to, rather than in addition to, or including others, comes from the
>> > structural imperative to earn a living, which necessitates offering
>> > something different and therefore of value in
>> >
>> > the market place. This is the inevitable concomitant of a capitalist
>> economy
>> > which requires people to have something of value which they can sell to
>> earn
>> > a living - labour, intellect, care, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> > Anna
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3 Aug 2016, at 21:31, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > One of your comments resonated with me. We have pretty much abandoned
>> > seeking funding and have also stopped responding to request from other
>> > people to help them with funding. That leaves holes. But I think we
>> > gotta figure out how to support our own activities as much as
>> > possible. I know, not always possible.
>> >
>> > We could try dues...that's what the old Nonpartisan League did and
>> > they took over North Dakota and created the state bank, among other
>> > things.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Well I was expecting you and Peter would make this warning. And this
>> > argument is about the methodology of analysis, or as Madron put it, and
>> > Fabians would totally agree 'operational complexity management'. I
>> think at
>> > the current point of time complexity managers has more advanced tools
>> and
>> > infrastructures to manage the complexity that  opposition forces added
>> on
>> > the complexity created by the intra-elite struggle. On the one hand
>> there
>> > emerges an alliance of 'delayists' (around next system project, new
>> economy
>> > alliance, de-growth so on) and on the radical left 'acclerationists' are
>> > forming a constellation (around Negri and so on). Some from left like
>> > Michael Aalbert, and parecon, David Harvey and rabel cities, negrists or
>> > cognitive captalists 'platform cooperatvism', Eric Olin Wright and real
>> > Utopias.. are counted in the next system alliance. On the driving seat,
>> as
>> > John Restakis prompted sometimes ago, there are networks which are
>> funded by
>> > OAK foundation of UK Royal-state, Rockefe
>> >
>> > llar, Ford, Soros foundation so on. These formed a founder alliance
>> called
>> > Edge Funders, whom Michel thinks are radicals. They fund all sort of
>> spaces,
>> > from WSF, to Left Forum, from the events Michel and Pat mentioned, to
>> Ripess
>> > -Synergia people (social solidarity economy discourse), from TNI to all
>> sort
>> > of movement building hubs. Yes There are contradictions every where,
>> there
>> > is a chaos too, but also there are some orders and regularities that are
>> > telling us something, and most worrisome is no one is talking about
>> with the
>> > fear of not getting any funding and suffer economically. That state of
>> > 'being determines the consciousness'. The more no one is willing to talk
>> > about these openly the more things go worse. That is all I wanted to
>> say..
>> >
>> >
>> > Orsan
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3 aug. 2016, at 22:03, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I snipped the previous contents, they were overloading my email
>> >
>> > viewer. And deleted the WSF from the distro list so they stop
>> >
>> > complaining at me.
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Orsan, I agree that alliances with aspects of the powers-that-be
>> >
>> > pose dangers. And co-optation happens. Fortunately, they don't want to
>> >
>> > ally with me anyway, otherwise I would need to thread some of those
>> >
>> > needles.
>> >
>> >
>> > I would, however, repost what I understood from Peter's message. If we
>> >
>> > are dialectical materialists, we gotta do a dialectical analysis of
>> >
>> > all these forces and their contradictions and also and maybe
>> >
>> > especially their internal contradictions.
>> >
>> >
>> > And even after the revolution or transformation or whatever, there
>> >
>> > will still be contradictions. That's life.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NetworkedLabour mailing list
>> > NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetworkedLabour mailing list
>> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Frederic
>

-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20160804/9b7c0ab2/attachment-0001.html>