[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] Robin Murray on Post-Post-Fordism

Sun Nov 8 18:59:51 CET 2015

Hi Michel,

The piece was an interview with Robin Murray, posted by Peter.  Confusion may be because he was talking to Jeremy Gilbert and Andrew Goffey, and names have been compressed in the title, quoted below.

Robin Murray is an industrial and environmental economist. Among many other projects and roles, he was Director of Industry and Employment at the Greater London Council in the 1980s
Anna 

> On 8 Nov 2015, at 16:40, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm guessing gilbert murray should not be confused with the Robin M. that we know,
> 
> Michel
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed, agree with Anna, it is extremely interesting analysis from Robin Murray. I think interviewers were referred by Wark's piece on Inventing Future book. The interview is a really enlightening one to me. 
>> 
>> On the one hand, because it was in Amsterdam networked labour gathering Robin and Michel met, and there were others mentioned in the interview like Hilary Wainwright, whose specific warning I always take as a guidance, makes this input special. While reading the text I remembered something Hilary used to talked, or warned about which was avoiding to replicate the mistake of of 68 generation (or resistance to capitalism / rulers in general) in helping capitalism reinvent itself.  I took that warning very serious and kept in mind. And while reading Robin's story, things get both clear and fuzzy at the same time, in terms of this mistake. 
>> 
>> Below is again relevant event; the intro page of Platform Cooperativism conference  taking place in NY next week. While looking at the Platform that is formed by the organizers, Scholz and Schinider which brings funders like Ford and Rosa Luxemburg, with unions like IG metal and Free Lancers Union, as well as participants like head of Microsoft research unit and CEO of free lancers Union co. Horowicth on the one hand and those like Stallman, Barbrook, Bauwens, Wark, Kleiner, Mayo, so on on the other.. My confusion accelerated - in relation to Hilary's warning. Can't help asking myself aren't, we, or this setting is helping out to capitalism to reinvent itself towards post-post-fordism. Even though the hope, or politics behind is that we culturally could make a good influence on the enemy, may be transform their thinking? 
>> 
>> Hence whilst I see Wark's criticism about this point and share his worries, what appears interesting is that he is on of the most enthusiasts attendant -as Trebor he is being part of the New School cadre hosting the event. Moreover, thinking of the recent piece shared by Fabian, by Tiziana; whose Social Strike piece were at the from page of the last years' Digital Labour event, my confusion increased since these are most radical critics of enemy we face here! Same goes for the '..to our friends' comrades, who sits at board of 'Invisible Committee', to whom Wark refers critically again in his review of Inventing Future (see his: http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/06/no-futurism/) and the links they have to the Powerful, the %1 percent. As occupiers of Occupy Wall St. online accounts (Micah White took over the twitter account and Justin Tunney (trans gender anarchist tool over the OWS blog admin letter is hired by Google as 'software developer' and white  founded his boutique revolution kickstart). Why all makes things become so fuzzy? 
>> Especially when realizing all these comrades and friends, somehow follow one or another version of Foucault-Deleuze-Laclau-Negri sort of radicalism, as those who are being linked to undertakings like transnational social strike.. One would normally can't stop thinking what all these mean? 
>> 
>> What it makes me feel though, assertively speaking, that roundabout power politics  never help in avoiding the mistake Hilary was remixing. Especially for those being squeezed and oppressed all the time. However such politics has been extremely helpful to those swimming in wealth and patent rights, those emerging as new victors out of the intra-class struggle marking the current crises as, Wark was rightly indicating. So that complex restructure of global oppression system not only survive but evolve in something worse each time. 
>> 
>> I wonder, therefore, why can't we talk and act assertively, openly, and ethically correct way instead amongst the forces of resistance, and towards forces and beneficiaries of oppression? What makes it immensely difficult? While everybody knows that there is or will be any tool or form; be it 'platform', portal, coop, p2p, network, tech, automation, nor basic income, serving for emancipation if we do not transform our selves and our beings. 
>> 
>> Robin's story of the past, tells me that we are again providing enormous amount of smart and useful analysis to stupid, narsist, psychopathological ruling cadre that possess all the means to control and oppress. The below event is not my main point of target here. And I do not accuse anyone for choosing specific politics or strategy. 
>> 
>> But what is crystal clear is that the entire network and relationships, built between actors belong to resistances in nature and those from rulers including Harvard, MIT, Mellon, to publishers (like Semiotext working with MIT -invisible committee books distributed by), from expensive projects funded by EU and EC, Ford, Rockefellar, Google, Microsoft, so on as well as political alliances built under guidance of the Club of Rome, Club of Budapest, Month Pelerin Society, World Economic Forum, ect. ect.. There is a certain and definite repetition of the mistake Hilary Wainwright used to warn about. 
>> 
>> It is not my intention to judge or hurt others feelings, but at this moment I do look and hope for rising up of the naive, good, and independent working people for themselves, forming their own p2p relationships, platforms, events, institutions and alliances, that would never receive any project money in return of sensitive strategic tacit knowledge. Who are trusting themselves and each other in growing hope; instead of investing hope and giving their destiny to wrong hands, or offering in exchange feeing need of income. 
>> Who grasps that there are really, socially, genetically and culturally bed people out there mostly at the most top, who can not help (because of individual and structural reasons) to reverse and exploit our inventions, findings, and our tacit knowledge, for their horrible, selfish, childish and irresponsible interests. 
>> 
>> O.
>> ......
>> Platform Cooperativism 
>> Introduction. http://platformcoop.net
>> The seeds are being planted for a new kind of online economy. For all the wonders the Internet brings us, it is dominated by an economics of monopoly, extraction, and surveillance. Ordinary users retain little control over their personal data, and the digital workplace is creeping into every corner of workers’ lives. Online platforms often exploit and exacerbate existing inequalities in society, even while promising to be the great equalizers. Could the Internet be owned and governed differently? What if Uber drivers could set up their own platform, or if cities could control their own version of Airbnb? Can Silicon Alley do things more democratically than Silicon Valley? What are the prospects for platform cooperativism? 
>> 
>> On November 13 and 14, the New School in New York City will host a coming-out party for the cooperative Internet, built of platforms owned and governed by the people who rely on them. The program will include discussion sessions, screenings, monologues, legal hacks, workshops, and dialogues, as well as a showcase of projects, both conceptual and actual, under the purview of celebrity judges. We’ll learn from coders and worker cooperatives, scholars and designers. Together, we’ll put their lessons to work as we work toward usable apps and structural economic change. This is your chance to get on the ground floor of the next Internet, and to help make it a reality.
>> 
>> Platform Cooperativism is convened by Trebor Scholz(The New School) and Nathan Schneider (University of Colorado Boulder).
>> 
>> Further reading:
>> 
>> Trebor Scholz, “Platform Cooperativism vs. the Sharing Economy” (December 5, 2014) and ”Think Outside the Boss,” Public Seminar (April 5, 2015)
>> Nathan Schneider, “Owning Is the New Sharing,” Shareable (December 21, 2014)
>> Janelle Orsi, Frank Pasquale, Nathan Schneider, Pia Mancini, Trebor Scholz, “5 Ways to Take Back Tech,” The Nation (May 27, 2015)
>> Nathan Schneider, “Owning What We Share,” Pacific Standard (September 1, 2015)
>> Sponsors & Partners
>> Platform Cooperativism is sponsored by Eugene Lang College The New School for Liberal Arts, The Ford Foundation, The Freelancers Union, The New School University Student Senate, The Workers Lab, IG Metal, Institute for the Future, Demand Progress, Internet and Society, The Robert L. Heilbronner Center for Capitalism Studies, the University of Colorado Boulder, Democracy at Work Institute, The Digital Humanities Minor at The New School, The Lang Student Senate, and The Rosa Luxemburg Foundation NYC. 
>> 
>> The event is presented in partnership with Carnegie Mellon School of Design, Civic Hall, Democracy Collaborative, Green Worker Cooperatives, The Murphy Institute for Worker Education and Labor Studies at CUNY, the New Economy Coalition, The Robin Hood Foundation, Shareable, The United States Federation of Worker Cooperatives, Ver.di, The Working World, The Laura Flanders Show, and The Yale Information Society Project.
>> 
>> This is the fourth event in The New School’s series The Politics of Digital Culture, which included  The Internet as Playground & Factory (2009) and Digital Labor (2014), among other conferences. There will be two additional summits in this series, following up on these themes, in 2016.
>> 
>> Twitter:  @platformcoop #platformcoop
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7 nov. 2015, at 12:52, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you for this Peter. Extremely interesting analysis of past and future economic trends. In passing it answers Orsan's point about positive and hope being in the 'non-automatable part of life and human'.
>>> 'They always looked to see if knowledge could be codified, yet knew that you had to have tacit knowledge to apply and customise the codification. That tacit knowledge might itself be codified. but that too needs further tacit knowledge. and so on. It was a constant movement of codification plus the tacit, never the eradication of the tacit. The moment you lose the tacit, living labour, the codification atrophies.' (p13)
>>> 
>>> In other words the two functions are not opposed to each other, but are complementary. The key is whether they are used to exploit by extracting a profit, or to benefit society.
>>> 
>>> Anna
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2015, at 14:03, Peter Waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> <nf8485_murray_gilbert_goffey.pdf>
>>>>  
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> 
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