[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] Robin Murray on Post-Post-Fordism

Mon Nov 9 12:51:47 CET 2015

you are right, I was the confused one, based on the file name <g>

I know robin well,

Michel

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Michel,
>
> The piece was an interview with Robin Murray, posted by Peter.  Confusion
> may be because he was talking to Jeremy Gilbert and Andrew Goffey, and
> names have been compressed in the title, quoted below.
>
> Robin Murray is an industrial and environmental economist. Among many
> other projects and roles, he was Director of Industry and Employment at the
> Greater London Council in the 1980s
>
> Anna
>
> On 8 Nov 2015, at 16:40, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>
> I'm guessing gilbert murray should not be confused with the Robin M. that
> we know,
>
> Michel
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed, agree with Anna, it is extremely interesting analysis from Robin
>> Murray. I think interviewers were referred by Wark's piece on Inventing
>> Future book. The interview is a really enlightening one to me.
>>
>> On the one hand, because it was in Amsterdam networked labour gathering
>> Robin and Michel met, and there were others mentioned in the interview like
>> Hilary Wainwright, whose specific warning I always take as a guidance,
>> makes this input special. While reading the text I remembered something
>> Hilary used to talked, or warned about which was avoiding to replicate the
>> mistake of of 68 generation (or resistance to capitalism / rulers in
>> general) in helping capitalism reinvent itself.  I took that warning
>> very serious and kept in mind. And while reading Robin's story, things get
>> both clear and fuzzy at the same time, in terms of this mistake.
>>
>> Below is again relevant event; the intro page of Platform Cooperativism
>> conference  taking place in NY next week. While looking at the Platform
>> that is formed by the organizers, Scholz and Schinider which brings funders
>> like Ford and Rosa Luxemburg, with unions like IG metal and Free Lancers
>> Union, as well as participants like head of Microsoft research unit and
>> CEO of free lancers Union co. Horowicth on the one hand and those like
>> Stallman, Barbrook, Bauwens, Wark, Kleiner, Mayo, so on on the other.. My
>> confusion accelerated - in relation to Hilary's warning. Can't help asking
>> myself aren't, we, or this setting is helping out to capitalism to reinvent
>> itself towards post-post-fordism. Even though the hope, or politics behind
>> is that we culturally could make a good influence on the enemy, may be
>> transform their thinking?
>>
>> Hence whilst I see Wark's criticism about this point and share his
>> worries, what appears interesting is that he is on of the most enthusiasts
>> attendant -as Trebor he is being part of the New School cadre hosting the
>> event. Moreover, thinking of the recent piece shared by Fabian, by Tiziana;
>> whose Social Strike piece were at the from page of the last years' Digital
>> Labour event, my confusion increased since these are most radical critics
>> of enemy we face here! Same goes for the '..to our friends' comrades, who
>> sits at board of 'Invisible Committee', to whom Wark refers critically
>> again in his review of Inventing Future (see his:
>> http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/06/no-futurism/) and the links they
>> have to the Powerful, the %1 percent. As occupiers of Occupy Wall St.
>> online accounts (Micah White took over the twitter account and Justin
>> Tunney (trans gender anarchist tool over the OWS blog admin letter is hired
>> by Google as 'software developer' and white  founded his boutique
>> revolution kickstart). Why all makes things become so fuzzy?
>> Especially when realizing all these comrades and friends, somehow follow
>> one or another version of Foucault-Deleuze-Laclau-Negri sort of radicalism,
>> as those who are being linked to undertakings like transnational social
>> strike.. One would normally can't stop thinking what all these mean?
>>
>> What it makes me feel though, assertively speaking, that roundabout power
>> politics  never help in avoiding the mistake Hilary was remixing.
>> Especially for those being squeezed and oppressed all the time. However
>> such politics has been extremely helpful to those swimming in wealth and
>> patent rights, those emerging as new victors out of the intra-class
>> struggle marking the current crises as, Wark was rightly indicating. So
>> that complex restructure of global oppression system not only survive but
>> evolve in something worse each time.
>>
>> I wonder, therefore, why can't we talk and act assertively, openly, and
>> ethically correct way instead amongst the forces of resistance, and towards
>> forces and beneficiaries of oppression? What makes it immensely difficult?
>> While everybody knows that there is or will be any tool or form; be it
>> 'platform', portal, coop, p2p, network, tech, automation, nor basic income,
>> serving for emancipation if we do not transform our selves and our beings.
>>
>> Robin's story of the past, tells me that we are again providing enormous
>> amount of smart and useful analysis to stupid, narsist, psychopathological
>> ruling cadre that possess all the means to control and oppress. The below
>> event is not my main point of target here. And I do not accuse anyone for
>> choosing specific politics or strategy.
>>
>> But what is crystal clear is that the entire network and relationships,
>> built between actors belong to resistances in nature and those from rulers
>> including Harvard, MIT, Mellon, to publishers (like Semiotext working with
>> MIT -invisible committee books distributed by), from expensive projects
>> funded by EU and EC, Ford, Rockefellar, Google, Microsoft, so on as well as
>> political alliances built under guidance of the Club of Rome, Club of
>> Budapest, Month Pelerin Society, World Economic Forum, ect. ect.. There is
>> a certain and definite repetition of the mistake Hilary Wainwright used to
>> warn about.
>>
>> It is not my intention to judge or hurt others feelings, but at this
>> moment I do look and hope for rising up of the naive, good, and independent
>> working people for themselves, forming their own p2p relationships,
>> platforms, events, institutions and alliances, that would never receive any
>> project money in return of sensitive strategic tacit knowledge. Who are
>> trusting themselves and each other in growing hope; instead of investing
>> hope and giving their destiny to wrong hands, or offering in exchange
>> feeing need of income.
>> Who grasps that there are really, socially, genetically and culturally
>> bed people out there mostly at the most top, who can not help (because of
>> individual and structural reasons) to reverse and exploit our inventions,
>> findings, and our tacit knowledge, for their horrible, selfish, childish
>> and irresponsible interests.
>>
>> O.
>> ......Platform Cooperativism Introduction. http://platformcoop.net
>>
>> The seeds are being planted for a new kind of online economy. For all the
>> wonders the Internet brings us, it is dominated by an economics of
>> monopoly, extraction, and surveillance. Ordinary users retain little
>> control over their personal data, and the digital workplace is creeping
>> into every corner of workers’ lives. Online platforms often exploit and
>> exacerbate existing inequalities in society, even while promising to be the
>> great equalizers. Could the Internet be owned and governed differently?
>> What if Uber drivers could set up their own platform, or if cities could
>> control their own version of Airbnb? Can Silicon Alley do things more
>> democratically than Silicon Valley? What are the prospects for platform
>> cooperativism?
>>
>> On November 13 and 14, the New School in New York City will host a
>> coming-out party for the cooperative Internet, built of platforms owned and
>> governed by the people who rely on them. The program will include
>> discussion sessions, screenings, monologues, legal hacks, workshops, and
>> dialogues, as well as a showcase of projects, both conceptual and actual,
>> under the purview of celebrity judges. We’ll learn from coders and worker
>> cooperatives, scholars and designers. Together, we’ll put their lessons to
>> work as we work toward usable apps and structural economic change. This is
>> your chance to get on the ground floor of the next Internet, and to help
>> make it a reality.
>>
>> Platform Cooperativism is convened by Trebor Scholz
>> <http://twitter.com/trebors>(The New School) and Nathan Schneider
>> <http://therowboat.com/> (University of Colorado Boulder).
>>
>> Further reading:
>>
>>    - Trebor Scholz, “Platform Cooperativism vs. the Sharing Economy
>>    <http://tinyurl.com/oj8rna2>” (December 5, 2014) and ”Think Outside
>>    the Boss
>>    <http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/04/think-outside-the-boss/#.VUoVZEuhIds>
>>    ,” *Public Seminar (April 5, 2015)*
>>    - Nathan Schneider, “Owning Is the New Sharing
>>    <http://www.shareable.net/blog/owning-is-the-new-sharing>,”
>>    *Shareable* (December 21, 2014)
>>    - Janelle Orsi, Frank Pasquale, Nathan Schneider, Pia Mancini, Trebor
>>    Scholz, “5 Ways to Take Back Tech
>>    <http://www.thenation.com/article/5-ways-take-back-tech/>,” *The
>>    Nation* (May 27, 2015)
>>    - Nathan Schneider, “Owning What We Share
>>    <http://www.psmag.com/business-economics/the-future-of-work-owning-what-we-share>
>>    ,” *Pacific Standard *(September 1, 2015)
>>
>> Sponsors & Partners
>>
>> Platform Cooperativism is sponsored by Eugene Lang College The New School
>> for Liberal Arts, The Ford Foundation, The Freelancers Union, The New
>> School University Student Senate, The Workers Lab, IG Metal, Institute for
>> the Future, Demand Progress, Internet and Society, The Robert L.
>> Heilbronner Center for Capitalism Studies, the University of Colorado
>> Boulder, Democracy at Work Institute, The Digital Humanities Minor at The
>> New School, The Lang Student Senate, and The Rosa Luxemburg Foundation NYC.
>>
>> The event is presented in partnership with Carnegie Mellon School of
>> Design, Civic Hall, Democracy Collaborative, Green Worker Cooperatives, The
>> Murphy Institute for Worker Education and Labor Studies at CUNY, the New
>> Economy Coalition, The Robin Hood Foundation, Shareable, The United States
>> Federation of Worker Cooperatives, Ver.di, The Working World, The Laura
>> Flanders Show, and The Yale Information Society Project.
>>
>> This is the fourth event in The New School’s series The Politics of
>> Digital Culture, which included  The Internet as Playground & Factory
>> <http://digitallabor.org/2009> (2009) and Digital Labor
>> <http://digitallabor.org/> (2014), among other conferences. There will
>> be two additional summits in this series, following up on these themes, in
>> 2016.
>>
>> Twitter:  @platformcoop #platformcoop
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 nov. 2015, at 12:52, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for this Peter. Extremely interesting analysis of past and
>> future economic trends. In passing it answers Orsan's point about positive
>> and hope being in the 'non-automatable part of life and human'.
>>
>> 'They always looked to see if knowledge could be codified, yet knew that
>> you had to have tacit knowledge to apply and customise the codification.
>> That tacit knowledge might itself be codified. but that too needs further
>> tacit knowledge. and so on. It was a constant movement of codification plus
>> the tacit, never the eradication of the tacit. The moment you lose the
>> tacit, living labour, the codification atrophies.' (p13)
>> In other words the two functions are not opposed to each other, but are
>> complementary. The key is whether they are used to exploit by extracting
>> a profit, or to benefit society.
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> On 6 Nov 2015, at 14:03, Peter Waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <nf8485_murray_gilbert_goffey.pdf>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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