[P2P-F] [commoning] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament

Thu Feb 12 09:41:54 CET 2015

Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in
Greece...

Roberto Verzola

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700
"Wolfgang Hoeschele" <whoeschele at commonsabundance.net> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
> 
> Very interesting discussion!
> 
> I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p
> concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in
> touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be
> useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1)
> there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere
> (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that
> break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are
> actual models that can be implemented and there are people both
> inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
> 
> It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek
> negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new
> approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a
> resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results
> for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would
> then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in
> this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there
> are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear
> from you what you think about this.
> 
> By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager,
> when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is
> that personal connection!
> 
> Best wishes,
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely
> endorses commons strategy before parliament
> From: George Papanikolaou <georgepapani at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm
> To: Eleftherios Kosmas <elkosmas at gmail.com>
> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <kostakis.b at gmail.com>,
> p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org, Commoning
> <commoning at lists.commons-institut.org>,
> "tapas at lists.p2pfoundation.net" <tapas at lists.p2pfoundation.net>,
> Commoning List <commoning at lists.wissensallmende.de>
> 
> Eleftherios thank you for the translation.
> Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2
> (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an
> important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to
> the commons ideas.
> 
> Best regards
> George
> 
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas
> <elkosmas at gmail.com> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished
> message.
> 
> Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to
> translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and
> linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not
> be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
> 
> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
> 
> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a
> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter
> of the commons personally and in public is the following.
> 
> I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with
> a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events
> happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and
> now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the
> collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually
> spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in
> the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the
> deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by
> addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social
> security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in
> Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced
> forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a
> strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which
> would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people,
> optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the
> Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of
> pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for
> us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity
> and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of
> different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that
> these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are
> those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by
> the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in
> Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
> 
> 
> Greek speakers could find the original here.
> 
> http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
> 
> I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
>  
> 
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas
> <elkosmas at gmail.com> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr
> Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind
> that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek
> language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am
> not a trained translator)
> 
> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
> 
> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a
> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter
> of the commons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list
> <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org> wrote: understood Vasilis,
> 
> but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management,
> and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when
> conditions are right ..
> 
> so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on
> the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer
> term change,
> 
> Michel
> 
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis
> <kostakis.b at gmail.com> wrote: Michel,
> 
> The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find
> anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference.
> However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was
> what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George
> Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he
> highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south
> can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this,
> George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the
> situation and give us time for experimentation".
> 
> Let's see...
> 
> v.
> 
> On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote: This is very important news:
> 
> perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ?
> especially in english ?
> 
> see:
> 
> " Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his
> speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new
> bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global
> orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable
> development."
> 
> --
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan 
> 
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> 
> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> 
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
> 
> Senior Research Fellow
> Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
> 
> Research Director
> P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan 
> 
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> 
> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> 
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://elkosmas.gr
> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://elkosmas.gr
> 
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