[P2P-F] Fwd: Re: [Research] [investigacion] english version of the summit declaration

Fri Jul 18 02:35:47 CEST 2014

Dear friends,

this answer from Quiliro to Michel is very important for the readers on 
this list. Is that true, that Quiliro from Ecuador is excluded from the 
P2P-F list? And also Bernardo?

many greetings, willi
Bogota, Colombia

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [Research] [investigacion] english version of the summit 
declaration
Datum: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:11:43 -0500
Von: Quiliro Ordóñez Baca <quiliro at congresolibre.org>
An: Michel Bauwens <p2pfoundation1 at gmail.com>
Kopie (CC): willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at gmail.com>, 
"research at listas.floksociety.org" <research at listas.floksociety.org>, 
Leopoldo Sanfuentes <alps at acm.org>,  Michel Bauwens 
<michel at p2pfoundation.net>, Dania Irene Quirola Suarez 
<daniaquirolasuarez at gmail.com>,  Franz Nahrada <f.nahrada at reflex.at>, 
jakob rigi <rigij at ceu.hu>

El mié 16 jul 2014 05:42:16 ECT, Michel Bauwens escribió:
> dear Quiliro,
>
> while things may look quietly on the western front, they may be less
> than you think,
>
> after the public threats to publish my private emails so I wouldn't
> publish an independent political evaluation, BG has systematically
> targetted my associations, threatening to 'bring me down', promising a
> bombshell, and trying to wean them away from the network promising
> juicy flok contracts ... this is just the way they operate, and none
> of us is going to change that ..

That is a terrible thing. One thing is to try to make things clear for
others and another is to try to destroy people.

> there are particular group dynamics at work there, a paranoid style of
> politics that dictates that who is not 100% with them, is necessarily
> a dark enemy. Bernardo's case is typical, he was not there most of the
> time, yet a few days after arriving, got convinced of their truths and
> actively started to spread disinformation; even when I sent him
> counterfactuals, he continued.
>
> It is one thing to believe someone out of loyalty and trust, but
> another thing to continue to actively spread them when you already
> know they are untrue,
>
> As for myself, I will of course never again work in this dynamic, and
> I'm trying to ignore the many false accusation that BG is spreading,
>
> the danger is that we sink into negativity, which they seem to enjoy
> as conquistadores, keeping us away from our constructive work,
>
> I'm trying to ignore these dynamics as best as I can,

It is better to learn about them than to ignore them. It is happy to
have been through something bad when we get over it and learn from it.
I know you are not used to these defamatory and inflammatory tactics of
these people because you have always managed yourself in good terms
with everyone. But it is a signal of being close to the fire....And
fire can make change!

On another topic, I would like to ask why have I not been allowed to
subscribe to the p2p-foundation mailing list and if it was a policy to
ban Bernardo from it (as he writes to me that he was previously
subscribed). I know he is a terrible person and that he is good at
trying to look like a sheep when he is really a wolf. But it is
important for me to distinguish FLOK management's attitude of
censorship from P2P Foundation attitude of inclusion. To do so, it
would be important that p2p-foundation mailing list would not
incorporate any sort of censorship on its mailing list.

--
Saludos libres,
Quiliro Ordóñez
600 8579