[P2P-F] [Networkedlabour] Transnational and P2P Commons Transitions

Sat Aug 2 02:41:40 CEST 2014

Dear Oersan,

i was a bit disappointed about your answer. But now, after many changed 
arguments, i understand more. For you, the speculative discussion about 
"strings" and "26. dimensions" is more important as the reality. For me, 
it is clear for members of the parasitic middle class. They have no 
substance. But for you?

Maybe, this answer from me is the last on this list. Then it should be. 
Its not so important to act on a list with no relation to the reality.

In your answer, i read, that you don't understand my proposal to 
NetMundial and www.1net.org. You args with post and cargo. I wrote about 
the common street as a parallel example to our networks for Packet 
transport. Maybe you don't understand the parallelism from common road 
and common data packet transport system. Or the parallelism from 
immaterial and material transport system for a society.

Dear friends,

Michel Bauwens wrote in one of his answers about "unity in diversity". I 
was very happy. Yes, because this is a very important step. I don't know 
what is the position to the concept of "partner state" from him and his 
friends.

And i read about "counter-economy". I understand, what he mean. But 
never i would follow this argumentation, because we need our own economy 
and never we use a counter position in our design of our own economy.

Robert Steele distributed some references from Stephan Schwarz:

SchwartzReport: Bottom Up Energy Liberation
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2014/07/schwartzreport-bottom-up-energy-liberation/

It is an important theme for us. The india village i don't know. But i 
know Wildpoldsried in South Germany, in the "Allgaeu", part of Bayern 
(Bavaria). I know this village nearly 40 years. So i know some 
processing there.

We know, that the community independence in energy is very important. It 
is a part of our local economy. But this means, that we have to control 
the design, construction and building of the components for that.

I know, that in Wildpoldsried the people discuss about. But the 
managers, all part of the "parasitic middle class", break this movement. 
Now, they use the most components from outside and in her center stay 
the money buisness. Not the independence in the using of the local 
energy base.

Following of that, the dependcy is transformed to an another level. No more.

But we see also in Wildpoldsried a very important process. It is the 
reactivity of the SSV (sports and swimming club). This groups are the 
most active parts of the local communities in south germany. And in this 
groups we find all type of profession. From agriculture to science of 
nature. And in Wildpoldsried we see the strong power of local community 
for her local economy.

many greetings, willi
San Agustin, Colombia

Am 30/07/2014 um 10:53 a.m. schrieb Örsan Şenalp:
> Willi, I like to force you to think or write in a constructive manner.
> Even if you like to criticize others you can do that constructvely as
> well, right?
>
> For instance, you have been talking about the pocket p2p distriubted
> transportation system, like post and cargo network. If you would like
> to give more insight, how does it work or will it be implemented?
> could you give, in case there is a developed version of the idea, link
> to a web site or document? Would love to read about it.
>
> best, Orsan
>
> On 29 July 2014 19:43, willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> this thread is a very important discussion. Maybe the most important on the
>> last time. And i hope, that the technical knowledge for the mailman is
>> growing up in the P2P foundation.
>>
>> The realy important task, the "occupy the economy", the local self
>> determining and organizing of the economy we search and never we find. We
>> find discussion about strategies for transformation. But on what base?
>>
>> We find theoretics for "partner state", for cooperation with parasitic
>> institutions, we find big fog for "knowledge worker" as a legitimation for
>> the prasitic middle class. But the base? Our material life conditions? The
>> nature as our basics for our existence?
>>
>> Michel wrote:
>> "My preference goes to the creation of maximally autonomous communities that
>> engage in counter-economics, and produce social charters to reconstitute
>> politics around p2p and the commons, as the athenians and free citizens of
>> the middle ages did. The endgame is phase transition, but not waiting until
>> it occurs, but instituting it through hyper-connected micro-scale
>> initiatives .. scaling through scope, until we are a social force that can
>> play at meso and macro-scale."
>>
>> It was the first time, that i can read about "autonomous Comunas" in this
>> discussion and in the P2P foundation. Maybe, i have overlooked it. Or is
>> that a result of the desaster in Ecuador? The result of a companion with the
>> prasitic state institutions in Ecuador?
>>
>> Societies as a free network of free and autonomous comunas. Based on: Free
>> association of free members. But on what base we are free? Only if we are
>> independent. But this is a breaking with the state theories. Never we can go
>> this way with the state system, because the state is a instrument for
>> centralisation, monopolizing and exclusion. Therefore he need the
>> representation.
>>
>> Marco Giustini args with the Zapatistas as a exemple for aoutonomous
>> comunsas. You should go to Chiapas and visit the zaptista communities. I was
>> there. It is a big lie, a big theater.
>>
>> We need the dempcracy. P2P (horizontal and direct) is in principle a
>> democratic structure and is totally incompatible with representation.
>> Democracy is the counterpol to the representative structure and is never
>> compatible to any state construction based on the romean state theory.
>>
>> Following of that, transformation of a society is the development of the
>> local economy. And for that, the development of the local technical
>> infrastructers to create the local economy.
>>
>> I will repeat: in the economy we never find money. This we only find in the
>> constructed distribution system.
>>
>> And never we work for "value accumulation". We work for our needs only and
>> not for any virtual speculation object. Of course, we and the result of our
>> activities have values. But this for itself have no value and is not
>> important.
>>
>> many greetings, willi
>> now: Pitalito, Colombia
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