[P2P-F] anonymous campaign against p2p-foundation

Orsan orsan1234 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 11 13:41:59 CET 2013

hi Kevin, that was the impression I got first but not sure, and yes I think via WikileaksCentral work and beyond for her activism she has good comm with anon accounts. Probably they picked up themselves don't know. any way would be easier to convince her to shift to a nicer and more constructive theoretical engagement, I agree with Michel's last post. she somehow misreads the p2p theory built around the foundation and by michel, at least that has been also my opinion and remember reacting to her article -titled approval economy- since she mainly refers p2p or distributed capitalism in her critics -which is also being discussed I remember by you guys. I would like to read her book and argument again and compare to Michel's, yours and others Kevin. the nut needs be resolved with her might be lying  there indeed.  

On 10 nov. 2013, at 23:37, Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:

> You seem to think she has a very close connection to Anon and is
> somehow driving the YourAnonCentral campaign against Michel.
> If so, she's being extremely disingenuous with all the
> passive-aggressive subtweeting about not having time for the drama --
> not to mention YourAnonCentral claiming she never made the accusations
> herself.
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Michel I know because you say so and I believe you, and I believe you
>> because I feel it and we also met in person and spent some time. Obviously
>> there are many like Heather who may be didn't meet you yet and can't believe
>> you but also the fact that at this level it can be achieved by merely
>> relying on your own free labour and under precarious conditions. This
>> actually contradict with Heather's own experience, since what she has chosen
>> to do is more about radical journalism and activism and that doesn't pay
>> back at the level p2pf operates... anyway What I feel would be helpful,
>> because this is what i think what is heather also most sensitive about
>> (rightly as all of us), or some of us, is the feeling of injustice and being
>> used. anyway forget about me and others, and just to quick fix the problem
>> of possible DDoS attack, pls send Heather, even if in dutch, the year
>> reports of the foundation which probably you have to publish every year and
>> has to include the fiscal reports. iIn principle this is public info but
>> usually they are not widely open right in the middle (just looked for but
>> couldn't find on the wiki) so please send her so she has a proof, again this
>> I guess would be a quick fix for the Anon campaign problem we have.
>> if there is another reason behind it however it should be uncovered. while
>> writing these lines i realized that her book is out
>> http://www.amazon.com/Binding-Chaos-collaboration-global-scale/dp/1489527680/ref=pd_rhf_pe_p_t_1_CWPB
>> And looks like good read with a great title 'binding chaos' which I believe
>> describes very good what you Michel and we all try to do, while
>> collaborating radically and creating what I call a systemic 'change value'.
>> and again right now remembering that she was raising a criticism towards p2p
>> economies, probably that is also part of her book and -thinking loudly- her
>> anger could be theoretically informed as well...  anyway the contradiction
>> here is worth to dig a bit more I think and given that the P2PF is now at a
>> turning point with the recent great achievements in Ecuador and with the EU
>> grant such reflection can be useful for all p2p friends. I still feel
>> hopefully something very positive might come out of this.
>> Orsan
>> On 10 nov. 2013, at 21:37, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> thanks for the comments,
>> Kevin/Tom: of course this could be some cointelpro, or it could just be a
>> personal issue, how would we be able to know this ?
>> on a rational level, this is xtremely difficult to understand: we had
>> friendly relations with heather, promoted her work, and she asked us to
>> publish these excerpts herself. How could she forget ? that seems so
>> impossible to fathom.
>> and once she knew about the oversight, why did she not relent, but on the
>> contrary escalated?
>> as for orsan's remark,
>> she believes we make money out of our curation, and that we are publicly
>> funded. Of course you know both are wrong. We make zero income on that
>> curation, all the wiki and blog work is free labour, and the very reason of
>> my precarity , lack of heath insurance etc (including months with no money
>> for food, solved by family solidarity): I have occasionally received very
>> small sub-minimum wage contributions via james, when we fundraised in times
>> of crisis;
>> now, we won a EU grant, not for the p2p foundation, but to pay researchers
>> that do actual research for the project (and none of that money has come in
>> yet); this is not public funding for the foundation
>> my situation is not rare, most of our associates live in precarious
>> circumstances with very low incomes, and none of p2p-f volunteering is
>> funded; we are all trying to do our best to generate derivative funding from
>> the market
>> next year is the first year I can look forward to monthly wages since 2007;
>> and it will used to fill holes and bring my family to Ecuador.
>> So no, we are not profiting from heather; on the contrary, we were helping
>> her to get her ideas across to more people, costing us energy and time .
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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> -- 
> Kevin Carson
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> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow
> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous
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