[P2P-F] Nondominium

Sun Sep 25 19:48:20 CEST 2011

very useful for further digging!!

On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 9:25 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:

> Michel,
>        a lot of it is stray bits of information. Herodotus's Histories
> narrative
> of the Greek Persian war is an important part. Stray bits like Miletus of
> Asia Minor was apparently the transplanting of a city, also named Miletus,
> which was on the island of Crete, after the Theran Volcanic explosion that
> was essentially relocated to Asia Minor area. Why? the answer is the
> terminus of the Silk Road. Why the extraordinary fleets at Samos, Lesbos,
> and Miletus? The same answer. The democratization of economics in the
> invention of token based currencies, over the oligarchic gift economy is
> also a downstream consequence.
>
> The recent publication of The Dhow Cultures of the Indian Ocean by Abdul
> Sheriff provides another link to the early (BCE) development of trade
> routes by the Persian empire, by the Egyptians to the Red Sea, Herodotus's
> narrative of Phoenician trading routes from Gibraltar the around the
> majority of Africa and back up to the Red Sea...
>
> Part of it is in a book by Peter Kingsley entitled "Reality" which traces
> the cosmology and metaphysics of the Phoceans to Parmenides, Heraclitus,
> Zeno, Empedocles, and onto Solon and others, which maps well onto the
> various ports of trade and manufacturing. Some it is just common sense to
> the extent that ideas, philosophies, spiritualities, and more were also
> shared. Here Thomas McEvilley's "The Shape of Ancient Thought" also
> contributes in the close parallels between Parmenides et al lineage of
> "Greater Greece" to the Rig Veda and the Upanishads shows up to
> demonstrate the close connections between the nominal East and West
>
> Another source is Henrik Spruyt's The Sovereign State and its Competitors
> (1994) which covers the Hanseatic League fairly well.
>
> A related line of research has been trying to establish the cultural
> origin of the Tarot/QBL, and no, I do not believe that the Hebrews were
> the originators of the QBL. More likely they represent a substantial
> contribution to the conservation of the core ideas. The QBL projected as a
> cube of space is more likely the product of sea faring culture or a
> culture which had a highly developed astronomical science. The use of
> icons as applied by the major trumps is characteristic of a pre-phonetic
> alphabet context, ie hieroglyphs or cuneiform script. The connections
> between between Mesopotamia and Egypt was not accomplished by carrier
> pigeons, but more likely by trade and the traveling of scholars, healers,
> scribes, and rhapsodes (professional reciters of epic poetry.)
>
> No, I do not yet have a specific bibliography. Until this point, me
> imposing upon the patience of my friends and acquaintances, has been my
> primary outlet. Archeo-economics doesn't have much of a natural audience
> in these times.
>
> Tadit
>
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:37:50 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>
> > Very interesting Tadit,
> >
> > would you have any bibliography on these merchant network nations?
> >
> > see also
> >
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/were-the-medieval-maghrebi-traders-p2p-pioneers/2009/08/02
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Regarding non-dominium, I mentioned once before the early establishment
> >> of
> >> various network nations at least in the early history of the
> >> Mediterranean
> >> et al. The same dynamic appears to have existed in the Indian Ocean
> >> region
> >> at least through the European Dark/medieval Ages and probably earlier.
> >> The
> >> Phoceans and the Phoenicians were both merchant network nations who
> >> established both home ports usually on islands. This pattern has been
> >> covered over by the framing of the development of the immediate region
> >> and
> >> beyond as "Greater Greece." There has been a severe distortion of the
> >> history confusing the later concept of territorial sovereignty with the
> >> process as it seemed to occur. Both Phoceans and the Phoenicians seemed
> >> to
> >> have originated our the Black Sea area as goddess or god/goddess
> >> cultures,
> >> What became identified as the Greek alphabet, was more likely the
> >> product
> >> of the needs of their mercantile basis for communication and record
> >> keeping.
> >>
> >> The nominal Grecian/Persian wars was caused by the clashes between the
> >> Mycenaean Greek/palatial economy which operated in a gift/tribute
> >> economy
> >> and was based upon land ownership and slavery. This sort of gift economy
> >> was less than benign, and was essentially oligarchic/feudal. The
> >> response
> >> of that culture to the merchant networks cast the merchants as thieves
> >> diverting wealth from its accumulative patterns. The Persian empire of
> >> Cyrus and thereafter seems to have been more about controlling and
> >> protecting the Silk Road against bandits, for which the merchants were
> >> quite willing to pay taxes. The navies of Samos and Lesbos were
> >> extraordinarily large for small island city states except that they most
> >> likely operated as escorts to the merchant traffic and may well have
> >> been
> >> more directly offshoots of the merchant network nations. the attack by
> >> Persia upon the Mycenaean/Palatial Greeks was punitive and based upon
> >> the
> >> economics. The wide variety of allies involved in that punitive attack
> >> speak to its representation of a wide field of interests, see
> >> Herodotus's
> >> narrative. The Macedons were allies to the Persian Empire to such a
> >> degree
> >> that as the Persian Empire faded, Alexander and the Macedons were
> >> prepared
> >> to takeover and conduct that "empire" on a very similar basis.
> >> Describing
> >> Alexander as "Greek" seems to be another conflation by the Mycenaean
> >> Greeks, and their Eurocentric acolytes thereafter.
> >>
> >> The Persian Empire was the primary stimulus to the cultural ascendancy
> >> of
> >> the Greater "Greek" and Ionian "Greek" cultures. Merchants after all and
> >> particularly in these examples brought ideas as well as goods to the
> >> scattered populations.
> >>
> >> The Dhow cultures of the Indian Ocean represent another open
> >> seas/non-dominium sort of process. China's recent economic development
> >> seems to embrace this dynamic in part through recognition of the legacy
> >> of
> >> the mercantile history of the Han Dynasty. At this point PR China seems
> >> to
> >> be less about sovereign territory and projecting the threat of direct
> >> occupation, and more about setting up the infrastructure to facilitate
> >> global trade. The current domination of the commons by imperial
> >> militarism
> >> seems to repeat this conflict. The imperial cultures seem to have great
> >> difficulty operating outside of the bounds of threat and control. The
> >> creole-ization by language and by trade in this region has a long
> >> history.
> >>
> >> simplistic labeling tends to distort the details of history. I am not
> >> quite to the point of putting together a more formal article on all of
> >> this. The Hanseatic league is similar example in its origin, though it
> >> seemed to redefine itself as a military force in response to operating
> >> against territorial. The effect of the Papal declaration of terra
> >> nullius
> >> was little more than another piece of cultural narcissism.
> >>
> >> The virtual organization seems to be a more modern application of the
> >> same
> >> sort of dynamic.
> >>
> >> for now, Tadit
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 04:28:26 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> >> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > thanks Chris, I really need you to write something on stewardship ...
> >> or
> >> > point me to some good article on this by someone else?
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Chris Cook
> >> > <cjenscook at googlemail.com>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Michel
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope your travels are productive.
> >> >>
> >> >> You'll find this concept - Nondominium - relevant in respect of the
> >> >> Commons
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MI24Dj01.html
> >> >>
> >> >> You'll see, once again, my view that custody/stewardship is
> >> >> preferential to
> >> >> Trusts, which I reckon were probably invented BY lawyers FOR lawyers
> >> ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Best Regards
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
>
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