very useful for further digging!!<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 9:25 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net">ideasinc@ee.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Michel,<br>
a lot of it is stray bits of information. Herodotus's Histories narrative<br>
of the Greek Persian war is an important part. Stray bits like Miletus of<br>
Asia Minor was apparently the transplanting of a city, also named Miletus,<br>
which was on the island of Crete, after the Theran Volcanic explosion that<br>
was essentially relocated to Asia Minor area. Why? the answer is the<br>
terminus of the Silk Road. Why the extraordinary fleets at Samos, Lesbos,<br>
and Miletus? The same answer. The democratization of economics in the<br>
invention of token based currencies, over the oligarchic gift economy is<br>
also a downstream consequence.<br>
<br>
The recent publication of The Dhow Cultures of the Indian Ocean by Abdul<br>
Sheriff provides another link to the early (BCE) development of trade<br>
routes by the Persian empire, by the Egyptians to the Red Sea, Herodotus's<br>
narrative of Phoenician trading routes from Gibraltar the around the<br>
majority of Africa and back up to the Red Sea...<br>
<br>
Part of it is in a book by Peter Kingsley entitled "Reality" which traces<br>
the cosmology and metaphysics of the Phoceans to Parmenides, Heraclitus,<br>
Zeno, Empedocles, and onto Solon and others, which maps well onto the<br>
various ports of trade and manufacturing. Some it is just common sense to<br>
the extent that ideas, philosophies, spiritualities, and more were also<br>
shared. Here Thomas McEvilley's "The Shape of Ancient Thought" also<br>
contributes in the close parallels between Parmenides et al lineage of<br>
"Greater Greece" to the Rig Veda and the Upanishads shows up to<br>
demonstrate the close connections between the nominal East and West<br>
<br>
Another source is Henrik Spruyt's The Sovereign State and its Competitors<br>
(1994) which covers the Hanseatic League fairly well.<br>
<br>
A related line of research has been trying to establish the cultural<br>
origin of the Tarot/QBL, and no, I do not believe that the Hebrews were<br>
the originators of the QBL. More likely they represent a substantial<br>
contribution to the conservation of the core ideas. The QBL projected as a<br>
cube of space is more likely the product of sea faring culture or a<br>
culture which had a highly developed astronomical science. The use of<br>
icons as applied by the major trumps is characteristic of a pre-phonetic<br>
alphabet context, ie hieroglyphs or cuneiform script. The connections<br>
between between Mesopotamia and Egypt was not accomplished by carrier<br>
pigeons, but more likely by trade and the traveling of scholars, healers,<br>
scribes, and rhapsodes (professional reciters of epic poetry.)<br>
<br>
No, I do not yet have a specific bibliography. Until this point, me<br>
imposing upon the patience of my friends and acquaintances, has been my<br>
primary outlet. Archeo-economics doesn't have much of a natural audience<br>
in these times.<br>
<br>
Tadit<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:37:50 -0400, Michel Bauwens<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Very interesting Tadit,<br>
><br>
> would you have any bibliography on these merchant network nations?<br>
><br>
> see also<br>
> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/were-the-medieval-maghrebi-traders-p2p-pioneers/2009/08/02" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/were-the-medieval-maghrebi-traders-p2p-pioneers/2009/08/02</a><br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM, <<a href="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net">ideasinc@ee.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Regarding non-dominium, I mentioned once before the early establishment<br>
>> of<br>
>> various network nations at least in the early history of the<br>
>> Mediterranean<br>
>> et al. The same dynamic appears to have existed in the Indian Ocean<br>
>> region<br>
>> at least through the European Dark/medieval Ages and probably earlier.<br>
>> The<br>
>> Phoceans and the Phoenicians were both merchant network nations who<br>
>> established both home ports usually on islands. This pattern has been<br>
>> covered over by the framing of the development of the immediate region<br>
>> and<br>
>> beyond as "Greater Greece." There has been a severe distortion of the<br>
>> history confusing the later concept of territorial sovereignty with the<br>
>> process as it seemed to occur. Both Phoceans and the Phoenicians seemed<br>
>> to<br>
>> have originated our the Black Sea area as goddess or god/goddess<br>
>> cultures,<br>
>> What became identified as the Greek alphabet, was more likely the<br>
>> product<br>
>> of the needs of their mercantile basis for communication and record<br>
>> keeping.<br>
>><br>
>> The nominal Grecian/Persian wars was caused by the clashes between the<br>
>> Mycenaean Greek/palatial economy which operated in a gift/tribute<br>
>> economy<br>
>> and was based upon land ownership and slavery. This sort of gift economy<br>
>> was less than benign, and was essentially oligarchic/feudal. The<br>
>> response<br>
>> of that culture to the merchant networks cast the merchants as thieves<br>
>> diverting wealth from its accumulative patterns. The Persian empire of<br>
>> Cyrus and thereafter seems to have been more about controlling and<br>
>> protecting the Silk Road against bandits, for which the merchants were<br>
>> quite willing to pay taxes. The navies of Samos and Lesbos were<br>
>> extraordinarily large for small island city states except that they most<br>
>> likely operated as escorts to the merchant traffic and may well have<br>
>> been<br>
>> more directly offshoots of the merchant network nations. the attack by<br>
>> Persia upon the Mycenaean/Palatial Greeks was punitive and based upon<br>
>> the<br>
>> economics. The wide variety of allies involved in that punitive attack<br>
>> speak to its representation of a wide field of interests, see<br>
>> Herodotus's<br>
>> narrative. The Macedons were allies to the Persian Empire to such a<br>
>> degree<br>
>> that as the Persian Empire faded, Alexander and the Macedons were<br>
>> prepared<br>
>> to takeover and conduct that "empire" on a very similar basis.<br>
>> Describing<br>
>> Alexander as "Greek" seems to be another conflation by the Mycenaean<br>
>> Greeks, and their Eurocentric acolytes thereafter.<br>
>><br>
>> The Persian Empire was the primary stimulus to the cultural ascendancy<br>
>> of<br>
>> the Greater "Greek" and Ionian "Greek" cultures. Merchants after all and<br>
>> particularly in these examples brought ideas as well as goods to the<br>
>> scattered populations.<br>
>><br>
>> The Dhow cultures of the Indian Ocean represent another open<br>
>> seas/non-dominium sort of process. China's recent economic development<br>
>> seems to embrace this dynamic in part through recognition of the legacy<br>
>> of<br>
>> the mercantile history of the Han Dynasty. At this point PR China seems<br>
>> to<br>
>> be less about sovereign territory and projecting the threat of direct<br>
>> occupation, and more about setting up the infrastructure to facilitate<br>
>> global trade. The current domination of the commons by imperial<br>
>> militarism<br>
>> seems to repeat this conflict. The imperial cultures seem to have great<br>
>> difficulty operating outside of the bounds of threat and control. The<br>
>> creole-ization by language and by trade in this region has a long<br>
>> history.<br>
>><br>
>> simplistic labeling tends to distort the details of history. I am not<br>
>> quite to the point of putting together a more formal article on all of<br>
>> this. The Hanseatic league is similar example in its origin, though it<br>
>> seemed to redefine itself as a military force in response to operating<br>
>> against territorial. The effect of the Papal declaration of terra<br>
>> nullius<br>
>> was little more than another piece of cultural narcissism.<br>
>><br>
>> The virtual organization seems to be a more modern application of the<br>
>> same<br>
>> sort of dynamic.<br>
>><br>
>> for now, Tadit<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 04:28:26 -0400, Michel Bauwens<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > thanks Chris, I really need you to write something on stewardship ...<br>
>> or<br>
>> > point me to some good article on this by someone else?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Michel<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Chris Cook<br>
>> > <<a href="mailto:cjenscook@googlemail.com">cjenscook@googlemail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Hi Michel<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I hope your travels are productive.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> You'll find this concept - Nondominium - relevant in respect of the<br>
>> >> Commons<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> <a href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MI24Dj01.html" target="_blank">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MI24Dj01.html</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> You'll see, once again, my view that custody/stewardship is<br>
>> >> preferential to<br>
>> >> Trusts, which I reckon were probably invented BY lawyers FOR lawyers<br>
>> ;-)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Best Regards<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Chris<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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