[P2P-F] Ecological and economic limits and overshoot

Wed Sep 14 12:03:45 CEST 2011

thanks for helping Ben, in cc, with this important question:

< first question: Is it possible, or do you know of resources and data I can
look at, to maintain the exponential growth the economic structures require?
Id appreciate any other reflections or ideas you have about how this
relatively short-term scenario could possibly play out. >

part of my own answer is below with recommended resources

Ben, see
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/p2p-practices-as-condition-for-the-next-long-wave/2011/01/14

In this paper, I draw on Kondratieff wave theory and Carlota Perez to
describe the near and longer future scenario,

basically:

Sudden system shock makes previous system inoperable

15 years of crisis, deleveraging of debt, etc ....

New wave based on new principles, which could/should include substantive p2p
practices

However, the underlying biospheric and civilisational crisis may very well
complicate things substantially, this may very well be the last wave of
capitalism

Sam, I remember you place the congruence of ecological crisis in 2030, do
you have any sources on that?

Michel

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
Date: Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Student Paper
To: ben zand <benzand57 at gmail.com>

Dear Ben

thanks for that email and I pretty much agree with your summary of the world
situation,

not sure though where I can find these data,

but here is a summary by Ted Trainer:
http://p2pfoundation.net/Radical_Implications_of_a_Zero_Growth_Economy

(see also below, I"m adding stuff as I think of it)

and this is probably quite important:
http://p2pfoundation.net/Planetary_Boundaries

"The following points drive home the magnitude of the overshoot:* *

   1. *If the 9 billion people we will have on earth within about 50
yearswere to use resources at the per capita rate of the rich
countries, annual
   resource production would have to be about 8 times as great as it is now.
   *
   2. * If 9 billion people were to have a North American diet we would need
   about 4.5 billion ha of cropland, but there are only 1.4 billion ha of
   cropland on the planet. *
   3. * Water resources are scarce and dwindling. What will the situation be
   if 9 billion people try to use water as we in rich countries do, while the
   greenhouse problem reduces water resources. *
   4. * The world’s fisheries are in serious trouble now, most of them
   overfished and in decline. What happens if 9 billion people try to eat
   fish at the rate Australian’s do now? *
   5. * Several mineral and other resources are likely to be very scarce
   soon, including gallium, indium, helium, and there are worries about copper,
   zinc, silver and phosphorous. *
   6. * Oil and gas are likely to be in decline soon, and largely
   unavailable in the second half of the century. If 9 billion were to
   consume oil at the Australian per capita rate, world demand would be
   about 5 times as great as it is now. The seriousness of this is extreme,
   given the heavy dependence of our society on liquid fuels. *
   7. * Recent 'Footprint' analysis indicates that it takes 8 ha of
   productive land to provide water, energy, settlement area and food for
   one person living in Australia. (World Wildlife Fund, 2009.) So if 9 billion
   people were to live as we do about 72 billion ha of productive land would be
   needed. But that is about 10 times all the available productive land on
   the planet. *
   8. * The most disturbing argument is to do with the greenhouse problem.
   It is very likely that in order to stop the carbon content of the atmosphere
   rising to dangerous levels CO2 emissions will have to be totally
   eliminated by 2050 (Hansen says 2030). (Hansen, 2009, Meinschausen et
   al., 2009.) Geo-sequestration can’t enable this, if only because it can only
   capture about 85% of the 50% of emissions that come from stationary sources
   like power stations."*

some sources to check:

http://p2pfoundation.net/Energy_Scenarios

http://p2pfoundation.net/Powerdown_Scenarios

http://p2pfoundation.net/Sustainable_Shrinkage

I recommend you take a look at 'overall policy frameworks', see

Introduction:

   - On the Necessity of Mediation for Economic and Social
Transitions<http://p2pfoundation.net/On_the_Necessity_of_Mediation_for_Economic_and_Social_Transitions>.
   Christian Arnsperger.
   - Christian Arnsperger <http://p2pfoundation.net/Christian_Arnsperger>:
   The Concept of Transition<http://p2pfoundation.net/Concept_of_Transition>.
   [38]<http://eco-transitions.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-transition-first-look-at-concepts.html>

Ways to organize P2P-Commons oriented proposals in a coherent whole:

   1. The Five Capitals Model <http://p2pfoundation.net/Five_Capitals_Model>
   2. Seven Acupuncture Points for Shifting to Capitalism
3.0<http://www.ottoscharmer.com/docs/articles/2009_SevenAcupuncturePoints5.pdf>.
   Otto Scharmer.
   3. David Korten: Seven Global Sources of Dysfunction and their
   Corresponding Corrective
Actions<http://p2pfoundation.net/Seven_Global_Sources_of_Dysfunction_and_their_Corresponding_Corrective_Actions>
   4. Christian Arnsperger: Six Framework Conditions for Global Systemic
   Change<http://p2pfoundation.net/Six_Framework_Conditions_for_Global_Systemic_Change>
   5. The New Economy Working
Group<http://p2pfoundation.net/New_Economy_Working_Group>,
   with David Korten<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Policy?title=David_Korten&action=edit&redlink=1>,
   Nine Action Clusters<http://neweconomyworkinggroup.org/about-us/ten-action-clusters>and
Three
   Defining System
Conditions<http://neweconomyworkinggroup.org/about-us/our-working-premise>
   6. 11 Structural Problems of the Current World
System<http://p2pfoundation.net/11_Structural_Problems_of_the_Current_World_System>

That's it for today!

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:36 AM, ben zand <benzand57 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Great. Again I deeply appreciate your time and efforts for humanity. And I
> do not expect any complete answers as I think that is beyond the scope of
> any one mind to comprehend with he interweaving complexities of today. I am
> beginning my paper by looking at the economic realities which
> drive the world and determine possibilities. Which in itself, I feel, is one
> of the root problems of humanity. Developed countries have become infatuated
> with growth and economic measures as the goals for society. This obviously
> isn't going to create a benevolent world as each country competes for
> exponential growth in a limited planet. Now it seems the United States, the
> engine and absorber, of economic growth has reached its limits
> of consumption as the population cannot service much new added debt, which
> allowed it to maintain this position. The globalist appear to look toward
> China and the developing world as the next engine after the next black swan
> induced market crash depresses the economy and destabilizes the U.S.'s
> position. In any plan to create new structures for the future of humanity,
> we must first roughly understand the environment in which they will be
> created and the palpability of these new possible changes.
>
> So first question: Is it possible, or do you know of resources and data I
> can look at, to maintain the exponential growth the economic structures
> require? Id appreciate any other reflections or ideas you have about how
> this relatively short-term scenario could possibly play out.
>
> Ben
>
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