[P2P-F] MMT/FEASTA...

Sat Sep 10 17:04:44 CEST 2011

Old redistribution ideas concerning the raising of funds by governments (via tax), and NGOs (via donations) is old backward thinking. The present economic system is more suited to "stone age" man rather than modern humanity.

See my project.

http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Transfinancial_Economics

________________________________
From: "ideasinc at ee.net" <ideasinc at ee.net>
To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
Sent: Saturday, 10 September 2011, 15:11
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] MMT/FEASTA...

Michael, this reply is more specific to your recollection of the MMT  
presentation/Q&A in Dublin.

> however, I came out less than enthusiastic ..
>
> the reason is the following, one of the ladies who gave the lecture,  
> gave an
> intro with the main principles of MMT, and one of the rules sounds really
> simplistic supply-side to me

Michael, what your impression and description of what you were told does  
seem like a repackaging of supply side economics, and the crux is in the  
details. It was in my opinion that what was described is actually the same  
economistic thinking that attempts to validate what is known as the  
"Laffer Curve." And then there is a caveat/disclaimer. A lot of the pseudo  
MMT stuff is wrapped around a very specific and neo-classical re-visionism  
that was applied to J. M. Keynes's body of works. J.M.K. evolved his own  
thinking and insights relative to economics over his life span. He started  
out as a neo-classical economist with an usually high sense of social  
integrity and responsibility, as evidenced early with his "Economic  
Consequences Of The Peace." The group of economists who identify  
themselves as post-Keynesians, which includes the MMT people begin from  
the position and theory developed in Keynes's later work.

It is also very true that Keynes's legacy has been abused by the familiar  
neo-classical ..."savants," Specifically Milton Friedman as a transition  
ploy to corrupt Keynes theoretical contributions to serve otherwise  
contrary interests. At the time the public reputation of Keynes was very  
high post WWII, the politicals generally avoided Keynes's proposals. Joan  
Robinson a former associate and collaborator has described with strong  
authority that this ploy should be described as "bastard Keynesianism."

Taxation within the MMT/Functional Fiscal finance at the sovereign  
(Federal) level is a way to control the concentration of wealth, and  
through the accelerating lobbying efforts a progress tax code has been  
replaced with a an entirely regressive application of taxation. Deficit  
spending under the bastard Keynesianism (neo-classical economics in  
costume) as enabled by the misrepresentation of Keynes used under the  
privatization "deficit" spending. Deficit spending when the government is  
a sovereign state can be issued entirely debt free, much as the US  
Continentals and the US Greenbacks were used. Taking back the sovereign  
power to issue currency does not even need legislative approval, just the  
information and the political integrity to decline massive levels of  
bribery.

With regard for Keynes's effort to raise the awareness of the demand side  
of the economy a tax holiday for the producing classes is a Keynesian/MMT  
concept through and through. The generalization that this applies to all  
form of taxation is bluntly ignorant. The MMT/Post-Keynesians also more  
importantly advocate for countercyclical intervention in the creation of  
basic living wage jobs. The same set of assumptions, ie legitimate  
MMT/FF/Minsky et al, can be also applied to define "social  
infrastructure," such as education and health care as extensions of the  
commons.

Yes, to the extent that taxation could reduce spendable income by  
individuals, yes that could cause the economy to slow down further.  
Corporations and particularly banking corporations currently don't have  
that constraint at all currently through the episodes of "Quantitative  
Easing" (Neo Classical wizardry of the golden oz.) hiring in response to  
demand will just not happen. So this part is just backwards at best, and  
worse simply illiterate even by intention.

Taxation under a Georgist application of economics as a commons state and  
local taxes are levied under some recognition of the source of the value  
of infrastructure which is tha basis of community centered economics.  
Taxation upon idle and potential assets re-directs to not tax personal  
property by personal use. Taxation in this fashion can reduce the blight  
of land speculation based upon valuation being based upon the structure,  
contrary to the potential contribution to the community economy.

enough for now, Tadit

>
> she said, lower taxes, and the economy grows, higher taxes, and the  
> economy
> slows down ...
>
> Disbelieving I asked a question on this, and she confirmed, and this  
> pretty
> much discredits MMT for me,
>
> Michel
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:27 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael, this is the link to Bill Mitchell's Billy Blog site and the  
>> first
>> segment of 7 in total.
>>
>> http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=6122
>>
>>  Mitchell is one of the top authorities on modern monetary economics  
>> which
>> is the discourse which has applied what was learned from legitimate
>> interpretations of Keynes and of the demand side economics of the WPA,
>> CCC, and NYA as progressive (U.S.) responses to the 20th century Great
>> Depression. Mitchell covers a list of "progressive" nominal
>> economists/establishments in the successive entries. L. Randall Wray of
>> the Univ. of Missouri Kansas City Econ. Dept has made similar statements
>> which would take me a bit longer to produce. The core difference is
>> between the economic assumptions being applied. The New Economic
>> Perspectives from Kansas City blog has a treasure trove of resources  
>> both
>> in the current primer review and of other stand alone materials. It may
>> require a bit of translation. Mitchell is at the top of his class in  
>> terms
>> of modern monetary economics and as a perspective it has been one of the
>> few opposing perspectives relative the well funded deficit terrorism
>> campaigns. Some of the material may seem counter-intuitive, and it is
>> based upon in part how central banking actually operates currently, only
>> how those principles can serve a more public and more social agenda. The
>> counter-intuitive part derives from the neo-classical framing which has
>> dominated the field for decades if not longer. Ie, by its familiarity,  
>> the
>> neo-classical framing seems correct when it is not actually, and serves  
>> to
>> contain genuine progressive initiatives within a neo-classical box of
>> assumptions. On a related topic, what is known as Jevons's Paradox is
>> often applied within ecological and environmental circles to "prove" the
>> futility of progressive energy measures and energy efficient technology,
>> ends up being paradoxical only within the neo-classical set of  
>> assumptions.
>>
>> as we go, Tadit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 06:49:51 -0400, Michel Bauwens
>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>
>> > thanks, do you have a link to the baker critique you mention below?
>> >
>> > Michel
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Y'all, Baker tends to have a reputation of being strong on the  
>> rhetoric
>> >> but very weak on the actual economics side of his material. It has  
>> been
>> >> demonstrated that his economic assumptions are neo-liberal in their
>> >> substance. Though this might be an interesting foray at one level, if
>> >> done
>> >> in a less than serious fashion it is likely to promote economic
>> >> illiteracy. This may seem harsh, and buying into the
>> >> neo-liberal/neo-classical framing of our situation cuts off even
>> >> imagining
>> >> informed fiscal options. I come from primarily a post-Keynesian
>> >> macro-economics and functional finance perspective, and this sits  
>> well
>> >> with my 20 plus years of being active in community centered economic
>> >> activism, from entrepreneurship development, to being treasurer of  
>> two
>> >> different cooperatives, to being downstream of fraud perpetrated  
>> under a
>> >> false flag of left "progressiv-ism," and other investments regarding.
>> >> Just
>> >> finished a series of essays by Bill Mitchell which included a  
>> critique
>> >> of
>> >> Dean Baker's economics, entitled "With Friends, Like These..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tadit Anderson, Re-Imagining Economics
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 01:50:04 -0400, Michel Bauwens
>> >> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> http://deanbaker.net/images/stories/documents/End-of-Loser-Liberalism.pdf
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Kevin, perhaps you'd find chapter 10 interesting, and even  
>> chapter
>> >> 11,
>> >> >
>> >> > commentary always appreciated if you have time,
>> >> >
>> >> > Michel
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>>
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