[P2P-F] presenting panoply

Sat Sep 10 04:44:50 CEST 2011

Hi Tadit,

the 6 examples you have could be the basis of a series and make it into a
later book?

should I add you to our list of commons-oriented economist? I don't think I
know  who you are so far ....?

Michel

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:39 AM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:

> Michel, imo, economics should be regarded as a commons domain rather than
> an ideology masked as an authentic discourse and the attendant priesthood
> to the oligarchy. I am trying to fathom your question and the reference to
> a lay audience. The whole fiscal process is deeply bought and thereby
> assumes the duty to and service to their patrons. "Wrong solutions to
> commons problems" could be expanded upon by using various historical
> examples. The nature of "positive" economics as actually also most
> positivistic discourse about doing science or doing a Science, have a
> distinct and strong aversion to an inductive working and morphing of
> patterns. Alongside this are implications from posing that perhaps Plato
> was a better playwright than philosopher.
>
> The commons has a metaphysics in Parmenides' poem, that legacy also has
> had scattered contributors operating in an often resurrected cosmology of
> capacities rather than by the means of conformity to abstractions and the
> predictable permutations and deviations. There are possibly six different
> examples I could describe relative wrong solutions to commons problems.
> The Laffer curve is one example. The history and bad economics places the
> basic world view as subverted mostly when ideology and theory have trumped
> actual results. Much of academic economics is explicitly anti-historical.
> There really is little light in the dismal streets and by-ways. The threat
> of an appearance is quickly promoted to fact.
>
> Wrong solutions to commons problems tends to be more than a few stories,
> and it is a way to start. And still this could go several different
> directions
>
> Mary Parker Follett had number of compatible methods and perspectives and
> an important part was her emphasis upon integrative meditation, which
> begins from the assumption that a commons exists within industrial
> contexts as well. She had right solutions based upon commons practices.
> She specifically described what she did as studying the science of
> cooperation.
>
>
> fast forward, Tadit Anderson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:21:05 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't know enough of U.S. history to understand your contribution
> > fully,
> > but I am intrigued by one paragraph, just below, and wonder if you would
> > not
> > be up for a p2p blog article on 'wrong solutions to commons problems',
> > where
> > you elaborate the following for a lay audience,
> >
> > see:
> >
> > "The power of the states and local banks to
> > circulate their own certificates/currencies was the applied solution
> > became known as the free banking era in US economic history. As a
> > consequence of no banking regulations virtually at all By the time of the
> > issuance of the US Greenbacks in 1861 there were 7,000 different
> > currencies being used. The Free Banking period is renown for the
> > widespread fraud, bankruptcy, and counterfeiting resulting from a state's
> > rights "solution" to a commons problem. This is the same level of
> > subversion of the need for a genuine alternative in a commons based
> > monetary paradigm."
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:28 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
> >
> >> This seems quite progressive for the most part, and it seems to be not
> >> fully out of the neo-classical financialized capitalism box. Lietaer's
> >> own
> >> The Future of Money directly admits concession to the debt based
> >> monetary
> >> model. I believe I remember that it appears on page 214. In effect the
> >> agenda of nominal monetary reform without much actual monetary reform.
> >>
> >> By way of an historical example from the 19 century in the US, Pres.
> >> Andrew Jackson's battle against the Second National Bank of the US as a
> >> group of blood thirsty frauds and thieves was not a simple hero story
> >> featuring good guy versus bad guys. It is actually an example of right
> >> problem but wrong solution. The power of the states and local banks to
> >> circulate their own certificates/currencies was the applied solution
> >> became known as the free banking era in US economic history. As a
> >> consequence of no banking regulations virtually at all By the time of
> >> the
> >> issuance of the US Greenbacks in 1861 there were 7,000 different
> >> currencies being used. The Free Banking period is renown for the
> >> widespread fraud, bankruptcy, and counterfeiting resulting from a
> >> state's
> >> rights "solution" to a commons problem. This is the same level of
> >> subversion of the need for a genuine alternative in a commons based
> >> monetary paradigm.
> >>
> >> The Greenbacks became politically hazardous later exactly because of the
> >> massive positive effect of an asset based, sovereign issued currency,
> >> the
> >> banking sector lobbied hard toward converting the US system onto a Gold
> >> standard, and they won that one. In 1863-4 the National Banking acts
> >> were
> >> passed as a compromise with the banking sector of the pro-war merchants.
> >> These laws allowed the operations and incorporation of banking
> >> corporations across state lines and shut down the ability of local and
> >> state banks to issue currencies. This allowed the mega-banks to be
> >> largely
> >> control the development of the economy once the US Civil War ended. And
> >> there is more, and then also the fraud of the US Federal Reserve, in the
> >> lineage of the Bank of England fraud playbook. The failings of the
> >> Confederacy was particularly interesting in that they preserved the
> >> states
> >> rights category of impairing actual common economic participation, and
> >> thereby did not have anything like the Greenbacks.
> >>
> >> The point here is that the same sort of centrifugal dynamics will
> >> prevail,
> >> including in the assumption of limited framing and alternatives. To put
> >> it
> >> in zen koan structure, when is an alternative, like one hand clapping?
> >> To
> >> put it another way perhaps the possibilities should be only limited by
> >> our
> >> capacities, rather than by the acceptance of standards and policy
> >> manuals
> >> for the sake of free rent and worse. Cook's Open Capital model also
> >> hovers
> >> on the edge of the post-Keynesian macro-commons. In effect the Greenback
> >> was the right solution to the chicanery of the Second National Bank of
> >> the
> >> US. It was not a debt based currency. Exhortations to a social
> >> libertarianism seem most practical when the additional capacities can be
> >> explored outside the installed pre-suppositions.
> >>
> >> as we go, Tadit Anderson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Civilized, gives people equal economic opportunity and basic income
> >> security.
> >>
> >>  Massively parallel decision making and pricing based on a market (the
> >> best of capitalism).
> >>
> >>  Environmentally conscious.
> >>
> >>  Resilient to future changes in automation, robotics.
> >>
> >>  P2P lending encourages community building, nurturing trust, and long
> >> term
> >> thinking.
> >>
> >>  Resolves the tragedy of the commons in a mature way:
> >>
> >>  P2P trust effectively limits the effects of free-loaders without
> >> ruining
> >> the entire playing field.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:00:19 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> >> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > *Mohamad Tarifi <http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/bio/tarifi/>'s
> >> economic
> >> > proposals at http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/tarifi20110908 are
> >> quite
> >> > interesting and sensible,
> >> >
> >> > I'll be excerpting the p2p paragraphs on the blog on the 18th,
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> > *
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
>
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