Hi Tadit,<br><br>the 6 examples you have could be the basis of a series and make it into a later book?<br><br>should I add you to our list of commons-oriented economist? I don't think I know who you are so far ....?<br>
<br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:39 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net">ideasinc@ee.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Michel, imo, economics should be regarded as a commons domain rather than<br>
an ideology masked as an authentic discourse and the attendant priesthood<br>
to the oligarchy. I am trying to fathom your question and the reference to<br>
a lay audience. The whole fiscal process is deeply bought and thereby<br>
assumes the duty to and service to their patrons. "Wrong solutions to<br>
commons problems" could be expanded upon by using various historical<br>
examples. The nature of "positive" economics as actually also most<br>
positivistic discourse about doing science or doing a Science, have a<br>
distinct and strong aversion to an inductive working and morphing of<br>
patterns. Alongside this are implications from posing that perhaps Plato<br>
was a better playwright than philosopher.<br>
<br>
The commons has a metaphysics in Parmenides' poem, that legacy also has<br>
had scattered contributors operating in an often resurrected cosmology of<br>
capacities rather than by the means of conformity to abstractions and the<br>
predictable permutations and deviations. There are possibly six different<br>
examples I could describe relative wrong solutions to commons problems.<br>
The Laffer curve is one example. The history and bad economics places the<br>
basic world view as subverted mostly when ideology and theory have trumped<br>
actual results. Much of academic economics is explicitly anti-historical.<br>
There really is little light in the dismal streets and by-ways. The threat<br>
of an appearance is quickly promoted to fact.<br>
<br>
Wrong solutions to commons problems tends to be more than a few stories,<br>
and it is a way to start. And still this could go several different<br>
directions<br>
<br>
Mary Parker Follett had number of compatible methods and perspectives and<br>
an important part was her emphasis upon integrative meditation, which<br>
begins from the assumption that a commons exists within industrial<br>
contexts as well. She had right solutions based upon commons practices.<br>
She specifically described what she did as studying the science of<br>
cooperation.<br>
<br>
<br>
fast forward, Tadit Anderson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:21:05 -0400, Michel Bauwens<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I don't know enough of U.S. history to understand your contribution<br>
> fully,<br>
> but I am intrigued by one paragraph, just below, and wonder if you would<br>
> not<br>
> be up for a p2p blog article on 'wrong solutions to commons problems',<br>
> where<br>
> you elaborate the following for a lay audience,<br>
><br>
> see:<br>
><br>
> "The power of the states and local banks to<br>
> circulate their own certificates/currencies was the applied solution<br>
> became known as the free banking era in US economic history. As a<br>
> consequence of no banking regulations virtually at all By the time of the<br>
> issuance of the US Greenbacks in 1861 there were 7,000 different<br>
> currencies being used. The Free Banking period is renown for the<br>
> widespread fraud, bankruptcy, and counterfeiting resulting from a state's<br>
> rights "solution" to a commons problem. This is the same level of<br>
> subversion of the need for a genuine alternative in a commons based<br>
> monetary paradigm."<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:28 PM, <<a href="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net">ideasinc@ee.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> This seems quite progressive for the most part, and it seems to be not<br>
>> fully out of the neo-classical financialized capitalism box. Lietaer's<br>
>> own<br>
>> The Future of Money directly admits concession to the debt based<br>
>> monetary<br>
>> model. I believe I remember that it appears on page 214. In effect the<br>
>> agenda of nominal monetary reform without much actual monetary reform.<br>
>><br>
>> By way of an historical example from the 19 century in the US, Pres.<br>
>> Andrew Jackson's battle against the Second National Bank of the US as a<br>
>> group of blood thirsty frauds and thieves was not a simple hero story<br>
>> featuring good guy versus bad guys. It is actually an example of right<br>
>> problem but wrong solution. The power of the states and local banks to<br>
>> circulate their own certificates/currencies was the applied solution<br>
>> became known as the free banking era in US economic history. As a<br>
>> consequence of no banking regulations virtually at all By the time of<br>
>> the<br>
>> issuance of the US Greenbacks in 1861 there were 7,000 different<br>
>> currencies being used. The Free Banking period is renown for the<br>
>> widespread fraud, bankruptcy, and counterfeiting resulting from a<br>
>> state's<br>
>> rights "solution" to a commons problem. This is the same level of<br>
>> subversion of the need for a genuine alternative in a commons based<br>
>> monetary paradigm.<br>
>><br>
>> The Greenbacks became politically hazardous later exactly because of the<br>
>> massive positive effect of an asset based, sovereign issued currency,<br>
>> the<br>
>> banking sector lobbied hard toward converting the US system onto a Gold<br>
>> standard, and they won that one. In 1863-4 the National Banking acts<br>
>> were<br>
>> passed as a compromise with the banking sector of the pro-war merchants.<br>
>> These laws allowed the operations and incorporation of banking<br>
>> corporations across state lines and shut down the ability of local and<br>
>> state banks to issue currencies. This allowed the mega-banks to be<br>
>> largely<br>
>> control the development of the economy once the US Civil War ended. And<br>
>> there is more, and then also the fraud of the US Federal Reserve, in the<br>
>> lineage of the Bank of England fraud playbook. The failings of the<br>
>> Confederacy was particularly interesting in that they preserved the<br>
>> states<br>
>> rights category of impairing actual common economic participation, and<br>
>> thereby did not have anything like the Greenbacks.<br>
>><br>
>> The point here is that the same sort of centrifugal dynamics will<br>
>> prevail,<br>
>> including in the assumption of limited framing and alternatives. To put<br>
>> it<br>
>> in zen koan structure, when is an alternative, like one hand clapping?<br>
>> To<br>
>> put it another way perhaps the possibilities should be only limited by<br>
>> our<br>
>> capacities, rather than by the acceptance of standards and policy<br>
>> manuals<br>
>> for the sake of free rent and worse. Cook's Open Capital model also<br>
>> hovers<br>
>> on the edge of the post-Keynesian macro-commons. In effect the Greenback<br>
>> was the right solution to the chicanery of the Second National Bank of<br>
>> the<br>
>> US. It was not a debt based currency. Exhortations to a social<br>
>> libertarianism seem most practical when the additional capacities can be<br>
>> explored outside the installed pre-suppositions.<br>
>><br>
>> as we go, Tadit Anderson<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Civilized, gives people equal economic opportunity and basic income<br>
>> security.<br>
>><br>
>> Massively parallel decision making and pricing based on a market (the<br>
>> best of capitalism).<br>
>><br>
>> Environmentally conscious.<br>
>><br>
>> Resilient to future changes in automation, robotics.<br>
>><br>
>> P2P lending encourages community building, nurturing trust, and long<br>
>> term<br>
>> thinking.<br>
>><br>
>> Resolves the tragedy of the commons in a mature way:<br>
>><br>
>> P2P trust effectively limits the effects of free-loaders without<br>
>> ruining<br>
>> the entire playing field.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:00:19 -0400, Michel Bauwens<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > *Mohamad Tarifi <<a href="http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/bio/tarifi/" target="_blank">http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/bio/tarifi/</a>>'s<br>
>> economic<br>
>> > proposals at <a href="http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/tarifi20110908" target="_blank">http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/tarifi20110908</a> are<br>
>> quite<br>
>> > interesting and sensible,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I'll be excerpting the p2p paragraphs on the blog on the 18th,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Michel<br>
>> > *<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list<br>
>> <a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
P2P Foundation - Mailing list<br>
<a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><div>
<br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
</div><br>