[P2P-F] Libertarians

Tue Oct 18 18:42:28 CEST 2011

Just some quick thoughts:

Michel - I'd imagine -  would rather the government have all the guns and
trust that they'll use them to enforce equality than to have faith in the
people and their capacity to organize.

If you have communautarian feelings then express them through actions - not
taxes.

Ron Paul finds the federal government an unacceptable entity to force people
to use their private property in a particular way.  I might disagree with
the extent to which he applies his philosophy but I respect it enough not to
demonize it.

Every nation has a unique history and identity.  I think we should encourage
political differentiation within the framework of increasing people's access
to technologies that enable them to escape coercion by becoming more self
sufficient.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>wrote:

> I think that this is the heart of the matter and an obvious difference
> between 'left' and 'right' approaches'
>
> it's really about how far you extend the circle of care .. for right-minded
> people it's nearly always about 'just for us' and they can have deep
> communautarian feelings (except probably for committed anarcho-capitalists
> who only believe in individual contracting and full commodification of all
> things), by contrast the left wants to extend it. ron paul finds it
> acceptable to refuse entry to black people on the basis of property rights,
> something no person on the left could tolerate ... natalie explicetely
> rejects the quest for equality even thought the revolt against inequality is
> at the heart of this movement .. but we can find commonality around freedom
> ..
>
> though of course, freedom without equality is a chimera, as you need a gun
> to protect you from your neighbour ...
>
> and the greatest the differential, the greater number of guns needed (now
> nearly a quarter of the workforce ?)
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Apostolis Xekoukoulot cakis <
> xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>    That is what a conservative libertarian would say. ''Protect the
>> liberty of a certain group of people, for example the american people. This
>> is how the greek athenian democrarcry worked as well. It wars a democracy
>> for menr. But if we start thinking about liberty to a set of people we end
>> up with the conclusion that everyone is a libertarian (take as a set only
>> yourself ). That would make the use of the word libertarian unnecessary (as
>> we all are libertarians). Since the word is used to differentiate between
>> people, we end up through *Reductio ad absurdum *that your defintion of
>> libertarian is wrong.
>>  We also end up with the conclusion that you are not a libertarian.
>>
>> As a personal remark, I would say that such a wrong definition of
>> libertarian was always used as an excuse to diminish the liberties of
>> others.
>>
>> (reading math.. right now)
>>
>> 2011/10/17 Natalie Golovin <10natalie at cox.net>
>>
>>>   Nations still exist. You can be a libertarian with regards to the
>>> rights/responsibilities/privileges/policies of your own citizens wo
>>> extending them to the universal
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>>
>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Devin Balkind
Director, Sarapis Foundation
devin at sarapisfoundation.org
@devinbalkind
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