[P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

Mon Oct 10 03:32:35 CEST 2011

MessageI think you mean the Federal Govt. Real democracy can thrive at the state and local levels if the “State” can be made to wither away a little. 

From: michael gurstein 
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 6:19 PM
To: 'P2P Foundation mailing list' 
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

Hmmm...

M

The Libertarianism FAQ http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/libertarianism.html#A6

A6. Do libertarians want to abolish the government?
Libertarians want to abolish as much government as they practically can. About 3/4 are "minarchists" who favor stripping government of most of its accumulated power to meddle, leaving only the police and courts for law enforcement and a sharply reduced military for national defense (nowadays some might also leave special powers for environmental enforcement). The other 1/4 (including the author of this FAQ) are out-and-out anarchists who believe that "limited government" is a delusion and the free market can provide better law, order, and security than any goverment monopoly.

Also, current libertarian political candidates recognize that you can't demolish a government as large as ours overnight, and that great care must be taken in dismantling it carefully.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org [mailto:p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Golovin
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 4:38 PM
  To: P2P Foundation mailing list
  Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

  How so, Michael? The Libertarians aren’t for destruction of govt-they’re for limited & honest govt. Once the big money (provided by the FED in conjunction with lobbyists) is curtailed & global monopoly power is restricted-maybe govt can be unchained and responsive to the people.

  From: michael gurstein 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:58 PM
  To: 'P2P Foundation mailing list' 
  Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

  The problem Natalie is that the libertarians/tea baggers would destroy the only modality through which citizens can exert their will and do something about the mess... 

  The corporations aren't going to do it obviously, so who/what else other than a responsive and responsible government can act as a means for citizens to exert their power in a democracy.

  Citizens need a structure to work through to exercise their power. To destroy government and sanctify corporate structures is to fall for the shell game that the Wall Street mob and their cronies are trying fob off as a political/economic theory.

  The fact that the existing structures are corrupted means that the task of making them suitable for exercising this will is rather more difficult and long term but as Maggie Thatcher would say TINA.

  M

    -----Original Message-----
    From: p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org [mailto:p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Golovin
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:48 PM
    To: P2P Foundation mailing list
    Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

    You can increase your effectiveness Nicholas-by encouraging capitalists who are against criminal crony behavior to join in against the fraud and lies of the common enemy-Wall Street Do that by helping to make peace out there and not drive away the libertarians & moderate tea baggers/populists. The media (paid for by Wall Street) is using this protest to divide & destroy

    From: Nicholas Roberts 
    Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 12:55 PM
    To: p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org 
    Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

    there is plenty of nihilist Leftist critique out there also 

    especially from the dinosaur vertical Marxists who have a big problem with the anarchic inspired bottom up processes common to these anti-capialist/alter-globalization movements

    in Europe there is a lot more big tent solidarity then on display in the US... 

    too many old Marxists, who should just shut up and send food parcels, instead whinge about discipline and have created a mini industry critiquing the publications of the movements

    the old, crusty, seedy Marxists, always say, "There is No Left in the USA". Now its obviously not true, they say "There is no Real, Rigorous, Dialectically Sophisticated, Disciplined Left in the USA"

    Occupying Occupy Together

    ReplyNicholas Roberts via gmail.com to lbo-talk 
         show details 12:29 PM (25 minutes ago)  

    can I just make a general swing at the keyboard intellectuals.  

    get of your arses and get down the places where people are gathering and get involved in the process

    its real easy to sit at home and read the amatuer, naive, often foolish media that comes out of these media events and spectacles

    even easier to type-up scathing nihilist critiques about the failure of the Left, the faults of the young, the weakness of the institutions etc etc etc etc etc

    there is plenty of material, and its been done, too much

    now is a time, to actually do something, and its time to be an organic intellectual and participate in the messy, smelly, noisy, uncomfortable realities of these kinds of democratic actions

    soon enough it will dissipate, and you can go back to eating the shit sandwhich of Amercian life

    but today, and for the next few days, there is something happening worth participating in

    take your intellect, your knowledge, your experience and GO HELP

      Today's Topics:

        1. Re: Fw: Cheap "Jibe" at Protestors.... (robert searle)

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