[P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

Mon Oct 10 03:19:04 CEST 2011

Hmmm...

M

The Libertarianism FAQ http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/libertarianism.html#A6

A6. Do libertarians want to abolish the government?

Libertarians want to abolish as much government as they practically can.
About 3/4 are "minarchists" who favor stripping government of most of its
accumulated power to meddle, leaving only the police and courts for law
enforcement and a sharply reduced military for national defense (nowadays
some might also leave special powers for environmental enforcement). The
other 1/4 (including the author of this FAQ) are out-and-out anarchists who
believe that "limited government" is a delusion and the free market can
provide better law, order, and security than any goverment monopoly.

Also, current libertarian political candidates recognize that you can't
demolish a government as large as ours overnight, and that great care must
be taken in dismantling it carefully.

-----Original Message-----
From: p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org
[mailto:p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org] On Behalf Of Natalie
Golovin
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 4:38 PM
To: P2P Foundation mailing list
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

How so, Michael? The Libertarians aren't for destruction of govt-they're for
limited & honest govt. Once the big money (provided by the FED in
conjunction with lobbyists) is curtailed & global monopoly power is
restricted-maybe govt can be unchained and responsive to the people.

From: michael gurstein <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>  
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:58 PM
To: 'P2P Foundation mailing  <mailto:p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
list' 
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

The problem Natalie is that the libertarians/tea baggers would destroy the
only modality through which citizens can exert their will and do something
about the mess... 

The corporations aren't going to do it obviously, so who/what else other
than a responsive and responsible government can act as a means for citizens
to exert their power in a democracy.

Citizens need a structure to work through to exercise their power. To
destroy government and sanctify corporate structures is to fall for the
shell game that the Wall Street mob and their cronies are trying fob off as
a political/economic theory.

The fact that the existing structures are corrupted means that the task of
making them suitable for exercising this will is rather more difficult and
long term but as Maggie Thatcher would say TINA.

M

-----Original Message-----
From: p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org
[mailto:p2p-foundation-bounces at lists.ourproject.org] On Behalf Of Natalie
Golovin
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 3:48 PM
To: P2P Foundation mailing list
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

You can increase your effectiveness Nicholas-by encouraging capitalists who
are against criminal crony behavior to join in against the fraud and lies of
the common enemy-Wall Street Do that by helping to make peace out there and
not drive away the libertarians & moderate tea baggers/populists. The media
(paid for by Wall Street) is using this protest to divide & destroy

From: Nicholas Roberts <mailto:nicholas at themediasociety.org>  
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 12:55 PM
To: p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org 
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37

there is plenty of nihilist Leftist critique out there also 

especially from the dinosaur vertical Marxists who have a big problem with
the anarchic inspired bottom up processes common to these
anti-capialist/alter-globalization movements

in Europe there is a lot more big tent solidarity then on display in the
US... 

too many old Marxists, who should just shut up and send food parcels,
instead whinge about discipline and have created a mini industry critiquing
the publications of the movements

the old, crusty, seedy Marxists, always say, "There is No Left in the USA".
Now its obviously not true, they say "There is no Real, Rigorous,
Dialectically Sophisticated, Disciplined Left in the USA"

Occupying Occupy Together

 Reply <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif> Reply
 More <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif> 

  <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif>
<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif> Nicholas Roberts via
<http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182>
gmail.com to lbo-talk
show details 12:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

can I just make a general swing at the keyboard intellectuals.  

get of your arses and get down the places where people are gathering and get
involved in the process

its real easy to sit at home and read the amatuer, naive, often foolish
media that comes out of these media events and spectacles

even easier to type-up scathing nihilist critiques about the failure of the
Left, the faults of the young, the weakness of the institutions etc etc etc
etc etc

there is plenty of material, and its been done, too much

now is a time, to actually do something, and its time to be an organic
intellectual and participate in the messy, smelly, noisy, uncomfortable
realities of these kinds of democratic actions

soon enough it will dissipate, and you can go back to eating the shit
sandwhich of Amercian life

but today, and for the next few days, there is something happening worth
participating in

take your intellect, your knowledge, your experience and GO HELP

Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Fw: Cheap "Jibe" at Protestors.... (robert searle)

  _____  

_______________________________________________
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
http://www.p2pfoundation.net
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

  _____  

_______________________________________________
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
http://www.p2pfoundation.net
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20111009/65a2bbec/attachment.htm 