[P2P-F] Unions for Immaterial Production?

Sun Feb 27 11:32:44 CET 2011

Hi Orsan,

to organize ourselves as producers/users of value is a very fruitful path,
which I have advocated in the past as well,

but, do you mean the workers of facebook, rather than the free labour using
the networks, I interpret you're saying the first?

however, "taking over" would really require a revolutionary situation, but
in the meantime there is a lot that can be done to strengthen the balance of
power and 'social contract' that exists within such corporate platforms,

I have a tag http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Conflicts, to monitor such
struggles,

Michel

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:35 PM, <orsan at tie-netherlands.nl> wrote:

> Actually it is a technical problem which can be discovered on the way. I
> did not mean taking over profit and share among worker force, but actually
> workers of the facebook, youtube etc take over companies and transfor them
> into free products for all. If we organise inside these companies as well as
> users, like occupied factories, those can be taken over collectively. User
> and producer strikes can be organised creatively for key demnds -like
> privacy/not selling our info to companies, etc -i can think of several ways
> but we need skillful programmers and hackers for thechncal part.
>
> Here are several examples of immaterial labour organising:
>
> http://www.alytusbiennial.com/damtp.html
> document from their from their world congress - DAta miners:
> http://antisystemic.org/SW/DAMTP1.pdf
> this can be interesting for friend at flywheel,
>
> and of course
>
> Telkommunisten: http://www.telekommunisten.net/
>
> the other interesting german speaking organised labour network is
>
> Netzwerk IT: http://www.netzwerkit.de/leaflet
>
> they developed creative techniques to oraganise and action, we might be
> trying to reach out similar org-nets and bridge our efforts together in
> order to organise immaterial labour transnationally, through a free online
> social network patform, Gaia is a prototype towards this aim needs to be
> developed and put into practice.
>
> best
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>:
>
>  Dear Orsan,
>>
>> the key question for me here is the following: can we find mechanisms of
>> peer property that do not recommodify our practices, but leave the p2p
>> practices intact?
>>
>> i.e. a simple profit sharing scheme by facebook/youtube etc.. would
>> essentially recommidify the social exchange, as people would start
>> behaving/producing as profit maximisers themselves?
>>
>> so are there mechanisms which can at the same time keep the value within
>> those that produce it, while preserving the social advances of free
>> collaborative labour?
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:13 AM, <orsan at tie-netherlands.nl> wrote:
>>
>>  Your thought Richard evokes some others in my mind. Like orgainising
>>> facebook users and programmers at the same time, as well as youtube,
>>> twitter, google workers and users.
>>> Since users are peer producers, they are immaterial free labour for these
>>> compaines. In principle can claim the product of their labour back,
>>> ownership of facebook, youtube, google and twitter.
>>> Does anyone know if there is already a union in these companies?
>>> and some people would join in for such an experiment?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Richard Schulte <richard at flywheelcollective.com>:
>>>
>>>  Patrick,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a member of a unionized worker co-op who deals exclusively with
>>>> software in the free & open source realm, I have not encountered many
>>>> issues with the impact of unionization on projects we are involved in.
>>>>
>>>> If anything, unionization in the open source realm could be helpful.
>>>> Say, if the workers of Sun Microsystems were unionized, could they not
>>>> have resisted the buy-out by Oracle through a strike?
>>>>
>>>> You make a good  point though - that developers in the greater
>>>> community could act as 'scabs' in these situations.  The thing is - as
>>>> long as they aren't being paid by the company that the workers are
>>>> striking against, then there is no issue, and they are not scabs.  If
>>>> anything, they could be seen as acting in solidarity with the striking
>>>> programmers by ensuring that their software is still stable once they
>>>> get back on the clock.  Or they could assist them by forking the
>>>> project and continuing development outside of the control of the
>>>> company (like the document foundation did). The free and open source
>>>> community is built around mutual aid, trust and solidarity (for the
>>>> most part).
>>>>
>>>> The reason I make such a big point of union organization in the open
>>>> source software and hardware communities is that when starting new
>>>> ventures that are worker-owned, that these folks can build economies of
>>>> scale around collective benefits, group purchasing, training & shared
>>>> services.  Having a union that is greater than your own shop is
>>>> important when filing grievances and having a wider reach of agency and
>>>> community.  When these institutions are worker-owned, and part of an
>>>> appropriate economic ecosystem, the balance of power tends to shift
>>>> away from moneyed interest and towards federation.  This means that
>>>> there will generally be less likelihood of strikes and work stoppage.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> On 02/25/2011 12:39 PM, Patrick Anderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  The effectiveness of collective bargaining has always been threatened
>>>>> by independent peers who are willing to accept lower wages and endure
>>>>> poor working conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> For traditional manufacturing jobs, these 'alternate' workers can
>>>>> usually be kept from accessing the Means of Production by forming a
>>>>> physical barrier around the worksite or through various threats that
>>>>> can be carried out because it is easy to monitor who is actually
>>>>> entering the establishment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet these valuable techniques of intimidation and coercion so vital to
>>>>> protecting Worker Rights are unlikely to be applicable in the realm of
>>>>> "immaterial production".
>>>>>
>>>>> When it comes to something like Free Software, how can we, the
>>>>> International Programmers of the World, unionize effectively to *stop*
>>>>> independent programmers from creating the solutions that consumers
>>>>> need?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a catastrophic issue, as many of these independents are
>>>>> willing to work not just for a low Wage, but for Free!  They often fix
>>>>> bugs and add features without any pay at all!
>>>>>
>>>>> How can workers in the 'immaterial' sphere possibly "make a living"
>>>>> with such anarchy and disrespect for organized labor, and with no
>>>>> ability to stop that production?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>

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