[P2P-F] Debt, Human Rights and Nature

Thu Feb 17 21:28:05 CET 2011

The inflation issue had more to do with centralized currencies' bias toward longer savings periods. 
P2P currencies lose value over time because the grain store needs to be paid, and so on. 
Long distance currencies need to remain steady for longer periods, so that merchants can bring them across Europe. 

On Feb 17, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:

> additional note :
> 
> I believe that a lack of inflation is a really big problem in a situation with parallel economies.
> 
> I have the feeling the ones who have money ( and power over money ) may try to keep inflation low "in the real economy", 
> 
> keeping wages down,
> and maintaining the value of their money in comparison to man/hour/slavery purchase,
> 
> yet at the same time speculate on certain goods, such as housing,
> so much so that people that work may not even be able to buy a house anymore.
> 
> In effect, it becomes an ideal approach to dispossess the population,
> increase the share of ownership within the hands of a minority,
> and increase the dependency of the population on renting resources it needs for survival but does not own anymore.
> 
> Probably this would require more details and references - it probably opens up a long conversation that can be continued on some other list...
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> is there any chance that you are asking questions to answers you perhaps already found ? ;)
> ... to incite us to think ? :)
> ... or to find out what we come up with ?
> 
> you ask : 
> > So governments had the authority to issue currency for themselves,
> > but then gave it away to private corporations?
> 
> My current short answer :
> 
> There apparently have been different periods in the recent US history what concerns control over monetary creation,
> including times where central private banking was a big issue in political campaigns.
> ( if I remember properly, as seen on this video - the money masters - )
> 
> Charters to a central bank have not always been renewed.
> 
> for example :
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bank_of_the_United_States
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States
> 
> There is a big dependency of politicians in Governments towards money, 
> so when money is centrally controlled by ( officially semi-public ) private banks,
> I di question : whom has control over whom ?
> 
> > I've heard people say "It is to control inflation" as though those
> > private corporations have more self-control than governments.
> 
> some economists say
> interest leads to inflation...
> 
> around 5min30
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuBy3BzCXwg
> 
> -----
> 
> What concerns me, is that in addition to this,
> there seem to be at least two parallel economies :
> 
> - the real economy : in which people try to survive and purchase goods for survival,
> potentially investing in some needed infrastructure.
> 
> - the speculative economy : in which investors try to maximize profits by creating speculative bubble economies, likely to be disconnected from the needs of people.
> 
> When the speculative economy accelerates the bust of the real economy,
> or vampirizes it by sucking up money in circulation in the real economy,
> my perception is that it hurts, really badly.
> 
> The current financial and monetary system may facilitate such speculative economy,
> as it requires exponential monetary growth.
> 
> I imagine that such risk could also appear with other monetary architectures / any artificially scarce currencies ? ... Any markets allowing unlimited speculation ?
> 
> But I do not believe all p2p currencies are fundamentally flawed... and anyway, I believe its worth a try... currency monopolies are, from my point of view, a big risk.
> 
> Diversification can enable us to test out a variety of architectures, and choose the most suitable currency characteristics adapted to the contexts we may want to use them...
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kevin Carson wrote:
> > The government, at least to the extent that bank licensing and legal
> > tender laws are enforceable.
> 
> So governments had the authority to issue currency for themselves,
> but then gave it away to private corporations?
> 
> How funny.
> 
> I wonder why they did this.  It must be for the best, right?
> 
> I've heard people say "It is to control inflation" as though those
> private corporations have more self-control than governments.
> 
> If this logic is true, does that mean all the P2P currencies are
> fundamentally flawed?
> 
> If this logic is false, does that mean our governments and the
> corporations that operate those governments are lying to us?
> 
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