[P2P-F] Debt, Human Rights and Nature

Thu Feb 17 21:18:29 CET 2011

additional note :

I believe that a lack of inflation is a really big problem in a situation
with parallel economies.

I have the feeling the ones who have money ( and power over money ) may try
to keep inflation low "in the real economy",

keeping wages down,
and maintaining the value of their money in comparison to man/hour/slavery
purchase,

yet at the same time speculate on certain goods, such as housing,
so much so that people that work may not even be able to buy a house
anymore.

In effect, it becomes an ideal approach to dispossess the population,
increase the share of ownership within the hands of a minority,
and increase the dependency of the population on renting resources it needs
for survival but does not own anymore.

Probably this would require more details and references - it probably opens
up a long conversation that can be continued on some other list...

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> is there any chance that you are asking questions to answers you perhaps
> already found ? ;)
> ... to incite us to think ? :)
> ... or to find out what we come up with ?
>
> you ask :
> *> So governments had the authority to issue currency for themselves,
> > but then gave it away to private corporations?*
>
> My current short answer :
>
> There apparently have been different periods in the recent US history what
> concerns control over monetary creation,
> including times where central private banking was a big issue in political
> campaigns.
> ( if I remember properly, as seen on this video - the money masters<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936#>- )
>
> Charters to a central bank have not always been renewed.
>
> for example :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bank_of_the_United_States
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States
>
> There is a big dependency of politicians in Governments towards money,
> so when money is centrally controlled by ( officially semi-public ) private
> banks,
> I di question : whom has control over whom ?
>
> > I've heard people say "It is to control inflation" as though those
> > private corporations have more self-control than governments.
>
> some economists say
> interest leads to inflation...
>
> around 5min30
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuBy3BzCXwg
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuBy3BzCXwg>-----
>
> What concerns me, is that in addition to this,
> there seem to be at least two parallel economies :
>
> - the real economy : in which people try to survive and purchase goods for
> survival,
> potentially investing in some needed infrastructure.
>
> - the speculative economy : in which investors try to maximize profits by
> creating speculative bubble economies, likely to be disconnected from the
> needs of people.
>
> When the speculative economy accelerates the bust of the real economy,
> or vampirizes it by sucking up money in circulation in the real economy,
> my perception is that it hurts, really badly.
>
> The current financial and monetary system may facilitate such speculative
> economy,
> as it requires exponential monetary growth.
>
> I imagine that such risk could also appear with other monetary
> architectures / any artificially scarce currencies ? ... Any markets
> allowing unlimited speculation ?
>
> But I do not believe all p2p currencies are fundamentally flawed... and
> anyway, I believe its worth a try... currency monopolies are, from my point
> of view, a big risk.
>
> Diversification can enable us to test out a variety of architectures, and
> choose the most suitable currency characteristics adapted to the contexts we
> may want to use them...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Patrick Anderson <agnucius at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Kevin Carson wrote:
>> > The government, at least to the extent that bank licensing and legal
>> > tender laws are enforceable.
>>
>> So governments had the authority to issue currency for themselves,
>> but then gave it away to private corporations?
>>
>> How funny.
>>
>> I wonder why they did this.  It must be for the best, right?
>>
>> I've heard people say "It is to control inflation" as though those
>> private corporations have more self-control than governments.
>>
>> If this logic is true, does that mean all the P2P currencies are
>> fundamentally flawed?
>>
>> If this logic is false, does that mean our governments and the
>> corporations that operate those governments are lying to us?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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