[P2P-F] Your visions : Supporting some permanent p2p collectives to physically converge to ? ( Re: french-language p2p lecture )

Tue Dec 27 07:01:49 CET 2011

hi Dante,

as a knowledge commons community and due to personal limitations, I don't
personally try to build physical collectives, and after five years, there
is no sign of other people in our community doing this under p2p-f banners.

However, more generally, there are thousands of p2p/commons oriented
collectives already existing, including in Brussels, so it's a matter of
choosing, and then committing yourself to contributing to it, and
everything flows from there; or atlernatively, creating an initiative
yourself.

I have choosen to live in an extended kinship-based community here in
Thailand and realize that I have never been happier than in this context,
(my own communal experiments having been less than successfull)  and I then
augment this intimacy based connection with intellectual community through
p2p-f and the global emerging p2p/commons movement.

I notice that you are pretty much asking the same questions as 5 years ago,
perhaps you are reluctant to commit, and not really wanting what you say or
think you want? Not sure what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure it's not
an issue of lack of choice 'out there'. Perhaps you should contemplate an
effort to 'construct' something, physical or virtual, beyond the nomadic
approach (which can also be an internal attitude). I don't think it matters
'what' you construct, but 'that' you construct, and that through planting a
flag in the ground, you allow others to align themselves to your values and
actions. But p2p is essentially an object-oriented relationality, without
shared object, it does not get off the ground.

Michel

Michel

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Michel
>
> Further below, some thoughts which stem out of this french lecture.
>
> I extend the lecture context as to delve into broad questions :
>
> - How to increase the potential to share and create with individuals who
> attend the same events, when such events are too short in time to truly get
> to know each other
>
> *- How to make it easier to introduce some people we meet,*
> *to other people we may not yet know personally *within our
> interconnected networks* , **based on shared interests, specific
> objectives or geographical proximity ?*
> *
> *
> *- How to do so in a way that enables a general appreciation of context ,
> and context building processes ? [5]*
> *
> *
> *- If we get to know each other, how do we enable further engagement for
> co-creation based on respective individual social and financial contexts ?
> *
> *
> *
> *- Do we have p2p physical places to go to, converge and experiment p2p
> approaches, and get to know each other ?*
> *Permanent p2p collectives ?*
>
> ///
>
> When listening to the lecture and questions asked by people attending it,
> I realize there are very probably *people I could interact or collaborate
> with.*
>
> Unfortunately, I was not in Paris for that specific seminar,
> yet indirectly, I experience that *each of us can indirectly benefit from
> the contacts other people in our networks make*
>
> When I go to seminars with people sharing interests,
> it is *not always easy to get in touch personally* , especially when
> there is no time for informal get to know's, or for art of hosting type of
> approaches.
>
> *Lists such as this one are useful *- yet I can hear that *for some people
> * ( including sometimes myself )* it represents an overflow of
> information.*
>
> *Hence more specifically defined lists* or *information aggregation stemming
> out* of more general ones ( can ) get *created around more specific
> objectives*. *[1]*
>
> At some point ( around 1hour30-31 minutes ) , a lady asks if you are
> connected to movements such as "Attac",
> and *you reply that you stay open for dialogue with a variety of
> backgrounds [2]** *
>
> Within such larger framework,
> regarding strategies used* [3]* ,
>
> I realize that as an individual, though well connected,
> I can find difficulties in finding approaches to not only interact but
> share and* engage* together with other individuals who apply such culture
> and approaches in their *daily lives*,
> to build up such infrastructures of *interdependence beyond the immateria*l
> - internet based exchanges.
>
> Some of the people I connected to in face to face interactions are on this
> list.
>  A number of us are spread across europe and/or the world.
>
> A variety of initiatives and environments exist *[4]*
>
> If Phyles related to some of our interconnected networks further emerge,
> how do you imagine them ?
>
> Would you personally ( or other people on this list ? )
> be interested in supporting "co-living - co-working" spaces ?
>
> Would we end up living together ?
>
> I realize living together , or at least have a physical convergence point
> where to contribute to based on shared memes,
> is important to me.  Yet till now I find initiatives and people spread all
> over.
>
> Hence my interest in finding low cost ( kind of venture communist ? )
> approaches to make infrastructure available,
> as to enable contributions to local viable systems based on p2p approaches.
>
> I d wish for p2p phyles to support such permanent p2p collective approach.
>
> Here is a suggestion : http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project
>
> I d like to provide people with such physical location to converge to, as
> to facilitate the process of getting to know each other through
> collaborating.
>
> I do remember, Michel, watching a video of an annex to your home in
> Thailand, which you imagined could host such p2p friendly facilities.
> Though I am also aware it may, for individuals such as me here in Europe,
> be somewhat far.
>
> Is there anyone else interested in such approach, and what are (y)our
> visions ?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> *Foot Notes :*
>
> [1] and mapped as to see how they relate or stem out of each other ?
>
> *[2]* some who are more distributist, others more mutualist, but also
> people from the right , etc and that you even go and talk to the catholic
> church upon invitation from the pope.  You then further comment that
> "indignados" and "occupymovements" may possibly relate more easily with the
> p2p approach ( and ethos ? ) , yet that with the more traditional left you
> may have felt more resistance, as some left wing backgrounds may remain
> more conservative in their mode of thought then, as you noted, some profit
> oriented backgrounds who stay open to new ( p2p ) ideas because of an
> interest in finding new approaches to make money.
>
> *[3]* to facilitate potential through collaboration around shared
> intentions,
> and at the current stage of development
>
> * [4]* Ecovillages and other communities already exist, and can share a
> number of subcultures brought up here on p2p lists.
>
> Fablabs are emerging , and can also bring people sharing such culture
> together in an approach to be co-creative while increasing our autonomy
> through choosing our interdependencies.
>
> For now, more Fablabs in urban centers ? And generally speaking, at the
> moment still mostly available to a very specific elite of technicians and
> progressive cultural researchers ? Yet possibly opening up , connecting to
> community / co-working spaces, such as in Berlin :
> http://opendesigncity.de/ ,
> or initiated ( or funded ) by research backgrounds with the intention to
> open up to the community, such as MIT's center for Bits and Atoms
> http://fab.cba.mit.edu/ , such as this one
> http://wiki.fablab.af/index.php/Main_Page
>
> *[5] *Holopticism ? http://www.slideshare.net/AlanRosenblith/holopticism
>
>
>  On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Voici le lien vers la vidéo de votre intervention à La Cantine :
>> http://lacantine.ubicast.eu/videos/webinar-16-12-2011-141701/
>>
>>
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>

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