[P2P-F] crucial text on democracy and debt by Michael Hudson (everyone should read this)

[Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis]

Maybe when i finish my work I will convince you (and myself) that those
factors are one and the same. :)

2011/12/7 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>

> hi apostolis,
>
> my understanding is that compound interest is a primary cause (one of the)
> of infinite growth, but not the only one. Merely tacking monetary design
> would not change the other factors leading to infinite capital
> accumulation. Nevertheless, it's an important part of any mix of measures
> to contain the infinite growth dynamic, and in this context, a renewed
> drive for debt bondage, leading to the destruction of the welfare state
> model.
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
> xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I dont understand your question very well. If you are refering to the
>> historical basis of debt bondage the article suggests that it is.
>>
>> I would search for the reasons that interest rates were created. Interest
>> rates are like a kind of clothe. We have to understand that it is a clothe
>> and not be misguided by the fashion of the era.
>>
>> If we removed interest rates from the economy, would we have stopped the
>> unending cicle? This is as important today as ever before.
>>
>>
>> 2011/12/6 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>
>>> <My only concern is that he might consider debt as only the obligation
>>> to return money with interest in the future in exchange for some product or
>>> service.>
>>>
>>> that's the basis of debt peonage / bondage is it not?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
>>> xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> ''Debt has been the main dynamic driving these shifts – always with
>>>> new twists and turns. It polarizes wealth to create a creditor class, whose
>>>> oligarchic rule is ended as new leaders (“tyrants” to Aristotle) win
>>>> popular support by cancelling the debts and redistributing property or
>>>> taking its usufruct for the state.''
>>>>
>>>> My only concern is that he might consider debt as only the obligation
>>>> to return money with interest in the future in exchange for some product or
>>>> service.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/12/5 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>>>
>>>>>  http://michael-hudson.com/2011/12/democracy-and-debt/
>>>>>
>>>>> (i only disagree with his analysis of the feudal ages, serfs were NOT
>>>>> indebted, and it was not a continuation of the undefeated roman oligarchy)
>>>>>
>>>>> Michel
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>>
>>>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>>
>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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-- 


Sincerely yours,

     Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
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