[P2P-F] crucial text on democracy and debt by Michael Hudson (everyone should read this)

Thu Dec 8 00:30:28 CET 2011

are you familiar with aqal integral methodology?

interesting to see things from different perspectives at the same time,

michel

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe when i finish my work I will convince you (and myself) that those
> factors are one and the same. :)
>
>
> 2011/12/7 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>
>> hi apostolis,
>>
>> my understanding is that compound interest is a primary cause (one of
>> the) of infinite growth, but not the only one. Merely tacking monetary
>> design would not change the other factors leading to infinite capital
>> accumulation. Nevertheless, it's an important part of any mix of measures
>> to contain the infinite growth dynamic, and in this context, a renewed
>> drive for debt bondage, leading to the destruction of the welfare state
>> model.
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
>> xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I dont understand your question very well. If you are refering to the
>>> historical basis of debt bondage the article suggests that it is.
>>>
>>> I would search for the reasons that interest rates were created.
>>> Interest rates are like a kind of clothe. We have to understand that it is
>>> a clothe and not be misguided by the fashion of the era.
>>>
>>> If we removed interest rates from the economy, would we have stopped the
>>> unending cicle? This is as important today as ever before.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/12/6 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>>
>>>> <My only concern is that he might consider debt as only the obligation
>>>> to return money with interest in the future in exchange for some product or
>>>> service.>
>>>>
>>>> that's the basis of debt peonage / bondage is it not?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
>>>> xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> ''Debt has been the main dynamic driving these shifts – always with
>>>>> new twists and turns. It polarizes wealth to create a creditor class, whose
>>>>> oligarchic rule is ended as new leaders (“tyrants” to Aristotle) win
>>>>> popular support by cancelling the debts and redistributing property or
>>>>> taking its usufruct for the state.''
>>>>>
>>>>> My only concern is that he might consider debt as only the obligation
>>>>> to return money with interest in the future in exchange for some product or
>>>>> service.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/12/5 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://michael-hudson.com/2011/12/democracy-and-debt/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (i only disagree with his analysis of the feudal ages, serfs were NOT
>>>>>> indebted, and it was not a continuation of the undefeated roman oligarchy)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>
>>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>
>
>
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