[P2P-F] is p2p akin to anarchism

Tue Apr 12 15:47:19 CEST 2011

While there are some productive similarities between anarcho-syndicalism 
and P2P theory to say they are the same thing goes too far... While the 
notions of voluntary self-aggregation are central to both, and both may 
agree upon Bakhtin's claim that 'Freedom without socialism is privilege 
and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality' 
there are also substantive differences between the two systems (or the 
two categories, as within each there exist multiple related and 
overlapping proposals and ideals).

As Marcos suggests the specific social and cultural context of late 
capitalism, with not just the Internet, but also a globalised economic 
system present a different set of affordances for modes of production, 
some of the liberal capitalist takes on peer production from people like 
Yochai Benkler's Wealth of Networks cover this stuff very well and 
explain why these socio-technical structures are amenable to different 
types of economic production. Another key difference is the envisioned 
role of the state - many bits of P2P literature, not only some of 
Michel's writing, but also material from people like Bernard Stiegler 
and Antonio Negri propose forms of universal citizen's income which 
would enable actors to freely self-aggregate within P2P networks without 
having to worry about being unable to feed themselves, access medical 
care or send their kids to school. Any such form of universally 
distributed income would tend to require some form of centralised body 
or state apparatus to distribute this funding. The existence of this 
type of state structure presents a differentiation from most anarchist 
models where there exists no state.

Its these types of difference which in my eyes make P2P theory a 
genuinely new and exciting set of ideas rather than simply rehashing 
centuries old ideas.

Cheers

Sy

On 12/04/2011 06:38, p2p-foundation-request at lists.ourproject.org wrote:
> Re: [P2P-F] is p2p akin to anarchism

Michel, I would offer a little counter-argument to Mr. Hardy's comment.
Mainly that while syndicalism does indeed advocate a style of governance
very much like that as hoped for in the P2pFoundation (as well as myself),
the scale and diversity at which the Internet*enables*  is something that is
far beyond what could ever be managed or orchestrated by non-networked means
(at least in the near term within scientific materialism).   The desire for
trade and diversity would otherwise make primitive syndicalism fail.  Indeed
both communism and capitalism arose from these failures.

Cheers,

Marcos
pangaia.sf.net

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> >  views very welcome,
> >
> >  Michel
> >
> >  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >  From: Facebook<update+pjiidwm at facebookmail.com>
> >  Date: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:49 PM
> >  Subject: Henry Edward Hardy commented on your link.
> >  To: Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >    facebook<http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com>
> >  Hi Michel,
> >  Henry Edward Hardy commented on your link.
> >  Henry wrote: "The article, "The Political Economy of Peer Production," by
> >  Michael Bauwens, advocates a supposedly new form of economic organization
> >  based on peer-to-peer networking. This social-network, flat,
> >  non-hierarchical system of production is anticipated in the political and
> >  economic philosophy of syndicalism, dating pack to 1895. Syndicalism is a
> >  system of organization of the means of production which seeks to replace
> >  free enterprise capitalism (US) and state capitalism (China) with
> >  co-operative, voluntary federations of democratically-organized and
> >  administered trade unions. Mutual aid, self-organization, and
> >  self-administration are among the means and goals of syndicalism. In other
> >  words, the first three "requirements"in this article, technological
> >  infrastructure that operates on peer-to-peer processes, alternative
> >  information and communication systems, software infrastructure, to the
> >  degree that they are requirements at all, in no way require computers or
> >  computer networks! The article attempts to graft the author's (perhaps
> >  un-self-aware) syndicalist political views onto the development process of
> >  the Internet and Free Software projects. In fact, the most successful of
> >  these, such as the Internet under Jon Postel, the Free Software Foundation
> >  under Richard Stallman, One Laptop per Child under Nicholas Negroponte, and
> >  Linux kernel maintenance under Linus Torvalds and Andrew Morton, have been
> >  what might more accurately described as "benign dictatorships" than
> >  syndicalist or peer-to-peer in nature. "An injury to one is an injury to
> >  all."http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism
> >  http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel
> >  http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman
> >  http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Negroponte
> >  http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/linus.html"
> >
> >
> >  See the comment thread<http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com>
> >  Reply to this email to comment on this link.
> >  Thanks,
> >  The Facebook Team
> >    See Comment<http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com>  The
> >  message was sent tomichelsub2004 at gmail.com. If you don't want to receive
> >  these emails from Facebook in the future or have your email address used for
> >  friend suggestions, you can unsubscribe<http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=c05bf5&u=528245547&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge>.
> >
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