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While there are some productive similarities between
anarcho-syndicalism and P2P theory to say they are the same thing
goes too far... While the notions of voluntary self-aggregation are
central to both, and both may agree upon Bakhtin's claim that <font
color="#000000">'</font><font color="grey" size="3"><font
color="#000000">Freedom without socialism is privilege and
injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and
brutality</font>' <font color="#000000">there are also
substantive differences between the two systems (or the two
categories, as within each there exist multiple related and
overlapping proposals and ideals).<br>
</font><br>
</font>As Marcos suggests the specific social and cultural context
of late capitalism, with not just the Internet, but also a
globalised economic system present a different set of affordances
for modes of production, some of the liberal capitalist takes on
peer production from people like Yochai Benkler's Wealth of Networks
cover this stuff very well and explain why these socio-technical
structures are amenable to different types of economic production.
Another key difference is the envisioned role of the state - many
bits of P2P literature, not only some of Michel's writing, but also
material from people like Bernard Stiegler and Antonio Negri propose
forms of universal citizen's income which would enable actors to
freely self-aggregate within P2P networks without having to worry
about being unable to feed themselves, access medical care or send
their kids to school. Any such form of universally distributed
income would tend to require some form of centralised body or state
apparatus to distribute this funding. The existence of this type of
state structure presents a differentiation from most anarchist
models where there exists no state.<br>
<br>
Its these types of difference which in my eyes make P2P theory a
genuinely new and exciting set of ideas rather than simply rehashing
centuries old ideas. <br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Sy<br>
<br>
On 12/04/2011 06:38, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org</a>
wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.1044.1302586732.1861.p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Re: [P2P-F] is p2p akin to anarchism
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre wrap="">Michel, I would offer a little counter-argument to Mr. Hardy's comment.
Mainly that while syndicalism does indeed advocate a style of governance
very much like that as hoped for in the P2pFoundation (as well as myself),
the scale and diversity at which the Internet <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>enables<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> is something that is
far beyond what could ever be managed or orchestrated by non-networked means
(at least in the near term within scientific materialism). The desire for
trade and diversity would otherwise make primitive syndicalism fail. Indeed
both communism and capitalism arose from these failures.
Cheers,
Marcos
pangaia.sf.net
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Michel Bauwens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com"><michelsub2004@gmail.com></a>wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<pre wrap=""><span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>views very welcome,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Michel
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>---------- Forwarded message ----------
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>From: Facebook <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:update+pjiidwm@facebookmail.com"><update+pjiidwm@facebookmail.com></a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Date: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:49 PM
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Subject: Henry Edward Hardy commented on your link.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>To: Michel Bauwens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com"><michelsub2004@gmail.com></a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span> facebook<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com"><http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com></a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Hi Michel,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Henry Edward Hardy commented on your link.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Henry wrote: "The article, "The Political Economy of Peer Production," by
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Michael Bauwens, advocates a supposedly new form of economic organization
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>based on peer-to-peer networking. This social-network, flat,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>non-hierarchical system of production is anticipated in the political and
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>economic philosophy of syndicalism, dating pack to 1895. Syndicalism is a
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>system of organization of the means of production which seeks to replace
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>free enterprise capitalism (US) and state capitalism (China) with
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>co-operative, voluntary federations of democratically-organized and
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>administered trade unions. Mutual aid, self-organization, and
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>self-administration are among the means and goals of syndicalism. In other
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>words, the first three "requirements"in this article, technological
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>infrastructure that operates on peer-to-peer processes, alternative
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>information and communication systems, software infrastructure, to the
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>degree that they are requirements at all, in no way require computers or
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>computer networks! The article attempts to graft the author's (perhaps
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>un-self-aware) syndicalist political views onto the development process of
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>the Internet and Free Software projects. In fact, the most successful of
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>these, such as the Internet under Jon Postel, the Free Software Foundation
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>under Richard Stallman, One Laptop per Child under Nicholas Negroponte, and
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Linux kernel maintenance under Linus Torvalds and Andrew Morton, have been
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>what might more accurately described as "benign dictatorships" than
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>syndicalist or peer-to-peer in nature. "An injury to one is an injury to
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>all." <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism">http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism</a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel">http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel</a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman">http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman</a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Negroponte">http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Negroponte</a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/linus.html">http://www.facebook.com/l/32423/www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/linus.html</a>"
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>See the comment thread<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com"><http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com></a>
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Reply to this email to comment on this link.
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>Thanks,
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>The Facebook Team
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span> See Comment<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com"><http://www.facebook.com/n/?mbauwens%2Fposts%2F201125386584394&mid=40bce9bG1f7c632bGe441548Ge&bcode=iNpgbV7N&n_m=michelsub2004%40gmail.com></a> The
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>message was sent to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>. If you don't want to receive
<span class="moz-txt-citetags">> </span>these emails from Facebook in the future or have your email address used for
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<span class="moz-txt-citetags">></span>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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