On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 09:03:26PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
Gracias por compartir, muy interesante la discusión ;-)
Bueno, dejate de agaradecerme. Parece una estrategia mas que un agradecimiento. De todos modos, por lo que aqui dice, tu has comprado espejos. Para comprar espejos alguien tiene que vender espejos O como con las palabras de Diego, estas nadando en la mugre. Hasta que sigas en ese charco, se te vera sucio. A esta altura te queda solo salir y enjabonarte. y tal vez asi recuperaras tu piel tersa y suave de a.oliva. No creo que rms con sus respuestas tu con tus escrituras actuaran de jabon. La frase de rms donde dice de "ignorar a menos que muchos ...." no muestra un rms tan limpio. z/j
Sin embargo, hace falta éste correo. ¿Quizás no te lo han enviado?
To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs? From: Alexandre Oliva <[email protected]> Organization: Free thinker, not speaking for FSF Latin America
On Jul 30, 2009, Alexandre Oliva <[email protected]> wrote:
On Jul 30, 2009, Richard Stallman <[email protected]> wrote:
They assume continuity which I personally dispute. How can we be held responsible and be required to make up for things that were done before we existed, before any of the current members joined the organization? Even more so when all the records of FSF de los Pampas were erased, and we effectively started from scratch in December 2006.
Perhaps they do not realize that FSF LA effectively started from scratch in December 2006.
It seems very insane to me, but they seem quite set on that line of reasoning.
Turns out it actually makes sense :-(
See, we haven't actually changed much of our site. The same documents published back then are still there, and quite prominent while at that. The initial declaration of intent, the mission, the goals drafted by the first organization, newsletters and all.
That's because we made a decision back then to avoid the impression of discontinuity.
With all this, any external observer, without the benefit of our knowledge about what happened, might reasonably arrive at the same conclusion. Heck, even our announcements say we started in 2005! We can't have it both ways.
Now, most external observers, without all the baggage that they carry, might take a “oh, right, we made this decision, it seemed to make sense then, but we didn't know about all this baggage; can we please leave it behind?” at face value and leave it at that.
But they've grown so suspicious and distrustful that they don't believe it, and they seem to take it as some kind of trick, to fool them again. It's perfectly understandable.
So they demand some public declaration in which we repudiate our past and declare that we started anew back then. Diego suggested:
"En el 2006 empezo una nueva etapa en la FSFLA y los actuales miembros repudiamos los hechos que dieron lugar a la anterior FSFLA, nos comprometemos a nunca mas promover exclusiones de algun tipo en la difusion del soft libre en america latina y a poner nuestro esfuerzo en la recuperacion del daño causado esperando con ello, entre otras cosas limpiar nuestro nombre".
This wording makes me a bit uncomfortable, but there's nothing in it that I particularly disagree with it:
- It is true that we started afresh then.
- It is true that we set ourselves aside from earlier acts; heck, we don't even know about most of them
- We're not in the business of excluding; when people are promoting Software Freedom, they're helping us advance our mission. However, this has to be worded very carefully to avoid setting up a trap for ourselves, that someone could later use to get us to do or not do things we ought to.
- It's not clear how much effort would be involved in repairing the damage, so this might be overcommitment. Watch out for traps.
- I don't like the fact that there's a need to clean up our name, but it is hard to believe that it's not there, so we might as well do something about it, or resign ourselves to its remaining there.
Regardless, perhaps we need to renew our web site so as to reflect what we are today. I'm not suggesting that we remove or hide our history, but rather that we write down the chapters that followed, so that we don't present such outdated snapshots as if they were current.
-- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer