I agree with Kevin completely in theory, but as I mentioned earlier-people live in their own times. It's the 21st century and there is no vacant land left in the US. BTW Mexico doesn't allow US citizens or those from Central America to move in and "homestead" The European Tribes treated the Natives no worse than they treated each other. What started off as involuntary manslaughter in the 17th & 18th centuries turned into voluntary manslaughter during the plains wars when growing Federal power & powerful economic interests got involved. There were also violent hostilities among ranchers and farmers. I'm finished with this subject mp READ -----Original Message----- From: mp Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Info borders? Thought you wanted them polices/militarized, whereas Kevin argues they should be open? On 22/10/11 02:58, Natalie Golovin wrote:
Agreed-that was easy.
-----Original Message----- From: Kevin Carson Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 6:34 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Info
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Natalie Golovin<[email protected]> wrote:
Going back to Native Populations..We're talking about 250 years of interplay among various groups of both tribes and migrating Europeans (subgroup religions) at a time when communication/transportation and historical knowledge re different civilizations was quite wanting compared to today. I already mentioned disease accounted for most of the deaths. The interactions were very diverse and many mostly local until the mid 19th Century (Big exception-French& Indian War) Spanish, French& English migrants interacted very differently with the tribes. In general, flagrant abuses come about when economic& political forces join hands.
Actually, I don't dispute the right of European settlers to homestead vacant land that actually wasn't being used, on an individual basis. What I was responding to was your suggestion that the common property of nomads, homesteaded by the act of using it as hunting grounds, wasn't "real property" and that European settlers were entitled to homestead land in such collective use on the grounds either of need (the overpopulated cities of Europe) or more efficient technical exploitation of the land. The natives, in general, were usually amenable to foreign settlements on land they weren't actually using -- I don't think they had a collective right to exclude people from using vacant land they weren't using themselves, any more than native citizens today have a collective ownership over land that a Mexican national might like to move onto.
As to "White Supremacy"-Suffice it to say I get in trouble with my Hard Left friends when I side with the young Hispanic girls who don't care about school, get pregnant in early teens and refuse abortion. These girls value family and love more than future prospects of good jobs& I think that's fine. BTW I worked at a Juvenile Detention center for a couple of years& understand the problems of growing up poor in rough neighborhoods.
I consider myself pretty hard left, and I can't imagine why anyone would get bent out of shape by that. Anyone who wants to bully girls like that into having abortions against their own judgment or inclination seriously needs to consider Willie Nelson's dictum: the world would be a better place if everybody smoked a joint every day and minded their own goddamned business.
-- NOT sent from a flippin' "smart"phone - 'cause I like birds... _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation