2 Jan
2014
2 Jan
'14
7:13 a.m.
I would only add that It helps if your proposal is scientifically correct. There may be many proposals these days, but how many of them are valid? Having the laws of nature at your side is the best ally you could have. But scientific rigor requires great effort and so you ll need to have an income. 2014/1/1 Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> > or ... we can create collaboratives to work on the development of tools > together, > > and then use the tools to generate our own markets and economic > opportunities... > > For setting up such collaboratives, we need to generate sufficient > engagement, a plan, and find some financing. > > > On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I think there are two different issues here, >> >> one is the proposal, which has to go through the darwinian process of >> being discussed, accepted, rejected by individuals and communities of >> interest ... ; the only thing to do here is to refine and spread the >> proposal and interact with whomever is interested ... but we live in age of >> a cambrian explosion of transformative proposals, so it won't be easy. >> Better in my opinion is to engage with social movements that are maximally >> close to the values and ideas you propose. >> >> the second is making a living; it is almost impossible to make a living >> with reform ideas only , though not impossible, as our work with the p2p-f >> shows; but I would not recommend the hardship to anyone; and my hunch is >> that professionalisation is needed at some point, i.e. transforming into an >> institution that can guarantee at least some livelyhoods for core organizers >> >> finding the common ground between one's passion, one's skills, and social >> needs is the holy grail, but this is very hard to do in the realm of ideas, >> >> Michel >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 3:41 PM, < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Send P2P-Foundation mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> >>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of P2P-Foundation digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested is >>> understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks ! >>> (Brent Shambaugh) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:59:34 -0600 >>> From: Brent Shambaugh <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested >>> is understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks ! >>> To: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]>, P2P Foundation >>> mailing list <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Dan Robles <[email protected]>, Ishan Shapiro >>> <[email protected]>, Jim Lee <[email protected]>, >>> Fernanda >>> Ibarra <[email protected]>, Connor Turland >>> <[email protected]>, Benjamin Brownell < >>> [email protected]>, >>> Helene Finidori <[email protected]>, Eric Harris-Braun >>> <[email protected]>, heather vescent < >>> [email protected]>, >>> Vinay Gupta <[email protected]>, Suresh Fernando >>> <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Michel >>> Bauwens >>> <[email protected]>, Arthur Brock < >>> [email protected]> >>> Message-ID: >>> < >>> CACvcBVqcdD7rppeshih8-87UxTR-9EY7MXedjhq8VWRLdcGT3Q@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Since around mid-march or so I've spent time trying to refining the ideas >>> from my Distributed Economy blog ( >>> http://www.adistributedeconomy.blogspot.com/) into a proposal. I kind of >>> felt like I was teaching myself all of computer science. Even though I >>> felt >>> I was learning quite a bit, it came at a considerable cost to myself. It >>> is >>> hard to think in a peer-to-peer fashion while questioning the fabric of >>> academia and industry. I felt that I did not fit in anywhere and was >>> unsure >>> build a business model around it. Physically, it seemed that way too. I >>> also became very cynical. I grew isolated, but thought I needed time for >>> self-study so what I was writing was credible, competitive and lucid >>> enough >>> that I could put faith in it to be confident with others. Still, it's >>> scope >>> was huge, enough to be not taken seriously by itself I guess. I felt I >>> basically was trying to change the operating system of the planet, and >>> everything else was built on top of that (businesses, academia, etc...). >>> Was the value network the business model? That, and maybe support? Do I >>> just try to start something like Linux and hope for the best? That's the >>> sort of scale I was envisioning. Fortunately, the web efforts have done a >>> lot of the groundwork. It's more of a use then. It's hard to say I did >>> much >>> beyond understanding and some aggregation of connections that others >>> might >>> not have seen. People tell you to hold on to some things in private, >>> while >>> at the same time you want to integrate with the rest of the community. >>> Maybe what I have is significant, maybe it is not. It would be great to >>> share it. I believe enough in it to think it could help people. I'm >>> almost >>> done with what seems to resemble a 20 page outline. I do not want to >>> fragment the community (or be fragmented from it), but at the same time I >>> need some sustainable way to survive. Paradoxically, it seems it needs >>> the >>> support and the efforts and the ideas of the community to succeed. Are >>> there any solutions? I'm sorry if I come off as arrogant in any way. >>> >>> -Brent >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > Thanks Eric >>> > >>> > Yes, I'd be glad to follow up on the thinking and research you are >>> doing >>> > around metacurrency, and participate in the scheduled hang out. >>> > >>> > further note : >>> > an interesting reply by June on this thread, >>> > also available on the public p2pf list archive >>> > >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> > >>> > >>> > - [P2P-F] Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested is >>> > understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks !< >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg01085.html >>> > >>> > Dante-Gabryell Monson >>> > - Re: [P2P-F] Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested is >>> > understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks !< >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg01087.html >>> > >>> > June Gorman >>> > - Re: [P2P-F] Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested is >>> > understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks !< >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg01088.html >>> > >>> > Dante-Gabryell Monson >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Eric Harris-Braun < >>> [email protected]>wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi All, >>> >> >>> >> It turns out that where the technical side of the MetaCurrency Project >>> >> has led us has lots to do with Semantic Data or rather, from our >>> point of >>> >> view, Semantic Computing. Ceptr, the computing stack we are >>> designing to >>> >> build our tools out of, pushes Semantics down into the lowest levels >>> of the >>> >> stack, in a way that we haven't seen with the approaches inherent >>> embodied >>> >> in RDF/URI. >>> >> >>> >> For folks interested in our approach, I'm scheduling a tech hang-out >>> in >>> >> the next week or two. If you want to be notified of it please drop me >>> a >>> >> line. >>> >> >>> >> -Eric >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < >>> >> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> *pre-note : I try to understand if we can , possibly collectively, * >>> >>> *write an article that could be published on the p2pfoundation blog,* >>> >>> *as to better explain, in words and with images / graphics , * >>> >>> *some of the potentials of building on, for example, Linked Data - >>> >>> and/or similar technologies enabling us to more easily redefine our >>> >>> realities collectively -* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *If anyone wrote on these topics, or is interested in combining our >>> >>> efforts and research in writing about these topics, or if some can >>> help in >>> >>> making such article in a enjoyable reading moment ( combining it >>> with nice >>> >>> imagery and stories ? Like some science fiction authors manage to do >>> - yet >>> >>> talking about the present ? ) it would be great. I mean, not only >>> about >>> >>> one specific application or project, but about the potential to work >>> >>> together on various applications based on common protocols. * >>> >>> >>> >>> *Some call it a "Global Brain" , or a "Web Operating System" , ... * >>> >>> >>> >>> *Below is what I want to say to open up the topics for now ... I am >>> open >>> >>> to brainstorm further, and progressively collectively organize an >>> easier to >>> >>> understand blog post, or series of blog posts, on such topics.* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Bob, Thanks Helene, >>> >>> >>> >>> for your replies. >>> >>> >>> >>> I sent this message initially motivated by the realization, after an >>> >>> email exchange with Michel. >>> >>> >>> >>> Michel pointed that in his view there seemed to be little interest >>> >>> regarding Linked Data / Semantic Web approaches on p2pf related >>> forums. >>> >>> >>> >>> So I wondered if this was really the case, and if so, what could be >>> the >>> >>> reason, >>> >>> and how could it be better communicated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Possibly showing how different projects may have an interest in using >>> >>> such technologies in their research and development of applications, >>> >>> showing overlap of different applications that want to embody such >>> >>> technologies, >>> >>> and overlap and re-use of the data generated by each of these >>> >>> applications to enable yet new applications. >>> >>> >>> >>> For example, Bob in collaboration with Sensorica for Open Value >>> Network >>> >>> tools... >>> >>> >>> >>> Although the technologies can be re-used and adapted for a variety of >>> >>> applications, >>> >>> hence Netention ( mostly Seth coding for now ) researching >>> approaches, >>> >>> and inviting others into such research and development, which >>> hopefully can >>> >>> be re-used for Open Value Networks, or for alternative forms of >>> learning >>> >>> building on available information on our wiki's , etc >>> >>> >>> >>> Other projects, such as metamaps, are also interested ( or already >>> >>> including ) such approaches ... >>> >>> >>> >>> Pavlik was already talking about FOAF ( one aspect / approach using >>> >>> Linked Data concepts ) many years ago. I now notice Pavlik is >>> regaining >>> >>> interest, including in Schema and Json , ... midst others, in >>> support of >>> >>> Sharing Economy applications ? >>> >>> >>> >>> /// >>> >>> >>> >>> But in a larger sense, I feel it is about contributing to the >>> >>> development of remedies regarding Anoptism ( which Olivier talks >>> about , >>> >>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Anoptism , while facilitating at first >>> >>> Holoptism ) >>> >>> >>> >>> In the understanding which I developed by interacting with Seth and >>> >>> others via lists such as "Global Survival List"< >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/global-survival> >>> >>> , >>> >>> >>> >>> such Web 3.0 approaches get us closer to the concept of " Noosphere " >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere >>> >>> >>> >>> Or should I be already speaking of Web 4.0 , since I can notice a >>> >>> convergence with artificial intelligence. >>> >>> >>> >>> See : >>> >>> >>> >>> http://novaspivack.typepad.com/RadarNetworksTowardsAWebOS.jpg >>> >>> ( and another graph about internet evolution >>> >>> http://www.didael.it/sito/evoluzione_web.htm , also calling some >>> >>> phases we have technologies for and for which we need more >>> collaboration in >>> >>> research to reduce the threshold for its usage , "the metaweb" >>> >>> http://koolaidantidote.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/metaweb_graph.gif) >>> >>> >>> >>> Emergent Collective Consciousness, Approaches to Collective >>> >>> Intelligence, to Emergent forms of Networked Political Economies, ... >>> >>> >>> >>> and can be combined with , for example, understanding in the field of >>> >>> Artificial Intelligence. ( could be interesting to refer to the >>> Global >>> >>> Brain Institute ? http://globalbraininstitute.org/ ) >>> >>> >>> >>> There are so many implications regarding decision making, >>> collaboration >>> >>> and collective intelligence, learning, resource allocation , and even >>> >>> finance... >>> >>> >>> >>> I see a lot of parallels between the potentials of Linked Data >>> >>> approaches, >>> >>> and the spirit of the Meta Currency project. >>> >>> >>> >>> Although there are indeed different potential approaches and >>> >>> technologies, >>> >>> and hopefully we can choose inter-operable ones. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are series of existing Ontologies. RDF Schema being one >>> approach >>> >>> which seems to be receiving wider acceptance. >>> >>> There is also the use of Json. >>> >>> >>> >>> Then there is the potential combination between Folksonomies and >>> >>> Ontologies, into Folksontologies... And I did not even mention >>> other >>> >>> interesting approaches ( slightly different then the W3C approach ? >>> ) , >>> >>> such as that of Pierre Levy >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_L%C3%A9vy and IEML >>> >>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Information_Economy_Meta_Language >>> >>> >>> >>> At least in spirit, in my understanding of it. - for each >>> application, >>> >>> various combinations of technologies may been considered, >>> >>> >>> >>> yet I see potential in enabling inter-operable formats, and data that >>> >>> can be re-used along compatible data graph approaches... >>> >>> >>> >>> How can this best be explained with imagery that anyone could >>> understand, >>> >>> and beyond any one specific project ? Enable the imagery of a new >>> way >>> >>> of creating and using data... re-using such data, enabling us to >>> >>> contextualize and choose the ( political and economic ) "games" we >>> play >>> >>> based on such contextualization layers ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Enabling us to interact with others, and across various applications, >>> >>> beyond any proprietary approaches, and beyond any social silos... >>> >>> >>> >>> Yet at the same time, enabling "machines" to understand ... >>> >>> >>> >>> Opening up whole new dimensions in terms of what seems to be widely >>> >>> called "The Internet of Things"< >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_of_Things> / >>> >>> Spimes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spime> , including in support >>> of >>> >>> the Sharing Economy, or better still in my view, A Contribution >>> Economy >>> >>> based on Peer Production in support of the Commons. >>> >>> >>> >>> That this can be enabled by experimenting further with various >>> existing >>> >>> modules and protocols... reducing threshold for their usage, >>> reducing the >>> >>> threshold for generating data together, reducing the threshold for >>> >>> organizing ourselves using such data ... >>> >>> >>> >>> There are many more themes this relates to. >>> >>> >>> >>> For example, Architecture - Urbanism, etc >>> >>> ( such as Modular Parametric Design , based on Lego Like components >>> that >>> >>> can easily be re-assembled ? ) >>> >>> >>> >>> There are also many risks - and in my view, a need to think how we >>> can >>> >>> be ahead of understanding the technology, to avoid it being used to >>> trap us >>> >>> in it - and instead use it to liberate and empower us. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please feel free to correct me where you see fit, complement views, >>> give >>> >>> your own perceptions, etc >>> >>> >>> >>> There is existing code from various projects for such kind of "Web >>> 4.0" >>> >>> browsing - there has been already a lot of research. >>> >>> >>> >>> In my view, one of the main challenges now, is to get people to work >>> >>> together on open sourced code and libre licenses, >>> >>> >>> >>> for developing inter-operable tools using such open protocols... >>> >>> >>> >>> Making the various interfaces easier to understand and use... >>> >>> >>> >>> But first, in my view, we need to see if people grasp these concepts, >>> >>> and understand that these potentials are very real and are current - >>> and we >>> >>> can participate in their development, and hopefully soon benefit >>> from its >>> >>> potentials. >>> >>> >>> >>> Also, there is funding available - for those of us who are good with >>> >>> funding applications - and can enable access to such larger >>> partnerships -, >>> >>> willing to contribute to the work of programmers, or willing to >>> motivate >>> >>> programmers to converge around a commons oriented approach - >>> >>> >>> >>> see : http://fisa.future-internet.eu/index.php/FIA_Research_Roadmap >>> >>> >>> >>> http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/ict/ssai/fp8preparations_en.html >>> >>> >>> >>> Note : There are also all kinds of existing video materials that can >>> be >>> >>> used to illustrate such concepts... I am willing to bring them >>> together. >>> >>> Those who can do video editing, I d be interested in supporting >>> research >>> >>> for creating a new video document too, in addition to blog articles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Forwarded conversation >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: Do we know about Linked Data ? Are we interested is >>> >>> understanding its potentials ? Quick survey - Thanks ! >>> >>> ------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <[email protected]> >>> >>> Date: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:50 AM >>> >>> To: p2p-foundation <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What would be your answer ? ( reply on this list or in private to me >>> ) >>> >>> >>> >>> *A ) Interested in ( getting to know more about ) its potentials* >>> >>> *B ) Not interested* >>> >>> >>> >>> and >>> >>> >>> >>> *1 ) Never heard of Linked Data >>> >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data>* >>> >>> *2 ) Know about it* >>> >>> *3 ) Actively researching Linked Data >>> >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data> applications ( in >>> support of p2p >>> >>> 4 commons ? )* >>> >>> >>> >>> ( or whatever other replies you wish to give ) >>> >>> >>> >>> // >>> >>> >>> >>> Context of my question : >>> >>> >>> >>> Michel noted that in his view Linked Data has not been a topic with >>> much >>> >>> interest on the p2pf related forums. >>> >>> >>> >>> I wish to understand if this is simply because not many of us know >>> about >>> >>> Linked Data, and its potentials ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Or is it simply because it seemed too complex or technical to bring >>> it >>> >>> up on this specific list ? >>> >>> >>> >>> I know some of us are working on Linked Data applications, >>> >>> including in support of Sharing Economy applications. >>> >>> >>> >>> I personally have been interested in some of its applications for a >>> few >>> >>> years, without being a programmer. I collaborated with a programmer >>> over >>> >>> the last years, to explore some of the approaches that can be taken >>> to >>> >>> create certain applications. >>> >>> >>> >>> /// >>> >>> >>> >>> The first aim I have with this email is to have some kind of quick , >>> >>> hopefully sufficiently representative set of replies. It does not >>> have to >>> >>> be on the public list - you can also reply to me in private if you >>> like. >>> >>> >>> >>> From there on, I wish to open up another thread to further explain >>> what >>> >>> Linked Data can be used for with those of us who may have explored >>> the >>> >>> topic and may see potential in supporting such research as to >>> manifest them >>> >>> into certain applications, in support of , for example, p2p commons >>> >>> oriented political economies. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cordially, >>> >>> Dante >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <[email protected]> >>> >>> Date: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:56 AM >>> >>> To: Connor Turland <[email protected]>, Bob Haugen < >>> >>> [email protected]>, Ishan Shapiro <[email protected]>, >>> Benjamin >>> >>> Brownell <[email protected]>, Arthur Brock <[email protected] >>> >, >>> >>> Eric Harris-Braun <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" < >>> [email protected]>, >>> >>> elf Pavlik <[email protected]>, Dan Robles < >>> >>> [email protected]>, S H <[email protected]>, Helene Finidori < >>> >>> [email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> sent this to p2pf list ... >>> >>> Cordially, Dante >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> From: *Helene Finidori* <[email protected]> >>> >>> Date: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:33 AM >>> >>> To: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> >>> >>> Cc: Connor Turland <[email protected]>, Bob Haugen < >>> >>> [email protected]>, Ishan Shapiro <[email protected]>, >>> Benjamin >>> >>> Brownell <[email protected]>, Arthur Brock <[email protected] >>> >, >>> >>> Eric Harris-Braun <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" < >>> [email protected]>, >>> >>> elf Pavlik <[email protected]>, Dan Robles < >>> >>> [email protected]>, S H <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Good idea. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wasn't this what we were trying to do at the Ouishare labs camp last >>> >>> May? Find ways to de-silo-ize the web, enable interoperability and >>> info to >>> >>> 'find each other' based on people's (agent's') intentions and >>> capacities? >>> >>> >>> >>> It would indeed be interesting to 'package' the 'value proposition' a >>> >>> bit :) in a compact and direct 'aha that's what I could use it for , >>> or >>> >>> that's how it could concretely benefit society' generating way. And >>> yes, >>> >>> create a collective... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> From: *Bob Haugen* <[email protected]> >>> >>> Date: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:03 AM >>> >>> To: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> >>> >>> Cc: Connor Turland <[email protected]>, Ishan Shapiro < >>> >>> [email protected]>, Benjamin Brownell <[email protected]>, >>> >>> Arthur Brock <[email protected]>, Eric Harris-Braun < >>> >>> [email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, elf Pavlik < >>> >>> [email protected]>, Dan Robles <[email protected]>, >>> S H < >>> >>> [email protected]>, Helene Finidori <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> We are doing some of what Linked Data requires: providing >>> >>> derefenceable URIs for all objects. Most have them now; all will have >>> >>> them eventually. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are not currently using or investigating RDF. We are starting to >>> >>> offer JSON as a serialization format, which so far is the only format >>> >>> that has been requested. Would happily learn and use RDF if needed. >>> >>> We also plan to offer value streams (like activity streams but of >>> >>> value-creating and using activities). The pace of offerings depends >>> >>> on somebody wanting to use them. >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> >>> From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <[email protected]> >>> >>> Date: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:35 PM >>> >>> To: Helene Finidori <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ... while at the same time enabling people to understand that this >>> is a >>> >>> research project, >>> >>> >>> >>> that we do not have ready products, and that people are invited to >>> >>> contribute to make such visions into reality... including via >>> their own >>> >>> projects, >>> >>> >>> >>> using standardized modules and/or offering frameworks people can >>> re-use >>> >>> for their own purposes... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > P2P Foundation - Mailing list >>> > http://www.p2pfoundation.net >>> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >>> > >>> > >>>