---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bob Haugen <[email protected]> Date: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Citations for "value equation" To: Tiberius Brastaviceanu <[email protected]> Cc: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>, Kurt Laitner < [email protected]>, Lynn Foster <[email protected]>, Caroline Stiegler <[email protected]>, Bernard Stiegler < [email protected]> The Value Equation tutorial is now public, as promised. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1h-t6p55KTK-zlXIH9gUG6TYiwj1ARk4dq0_Q... Please let us know if you have any problems accessing it, or if you have suggestions for improvement, or want to comment on the document itself. On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot. I started a github wiki page, citing the referata wiki page: https://github.com/valnet/valuenetwork/wiki/Value-Equations
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <[email protected]> wrote:
I saved some info in the value equation OVN wiki page http://valuenetwork.referata.com/wiki/The_Value_Equation#Background
I also linked Lynn's document on value equation on this page, which is itself linked on the main value equation page.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]
wrote:
ok thanks!
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 9:42 PM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]>
wrote:
Give us until Jan 15 before (for example) publishing on P2PFoundation?
In the meantime, feel free to share it with anybody who wants to join
the
conversation. It's public-on-the-web now, and if people want to comment on the document itself, we can give them permission. Maybe open up a copy for both commenting and editing, if people want to get deep into it.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
when will this be shareable ?
Michel
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote:
I guess we should have known that Kurt would appear in that
fascinating
origin story.
So here's a question, which I hope will stimulate a longer conversation than an email thread, and may want to find another medium or two:
We are close to having an actual value equation up and running. Just starting to implement the actual distributions, but most of the structure and logic is in place.
It probably differs from what any of the originators had in mind. Partly because we don't yet have some of the components people had in mind, maybe because Tibi's ideas and/or the situation at Sensorica have changed, and certainly because we are trying to design it in a general enough way to handle all of the value equation ideas of the current groups that want to use it. (And also probably because of lacks of skill and imagination...)
We will be documenting it in a lot of detail. Here's the first installment, much more to come:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1h-t6p55KTK-zlXIH9gUG6TYiwj1ARk4dq0_Q...
So we want to know what you all think about it. We think this is a transformative idea (which is why we want the history to be part of
the
documentation), and it needs a lot of ongoing thought and development (in the sense of child development).
On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Kurt Laitner <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks tibi for noticing :-) > > I have used "value equation" and "value networks" since the early > 2000's in conversations about *net (after i forked the idea from my > colleague's concept of 'powernet' who wanted to create a for-profit platform > to take percentages of each transaction). We call something similar to *net > "OVN's" (though the NRP concept is probably closer to *net than OVN is as > *net is a platform with parametrized algorithms based on value accumulation > in standardized value dimensions whose accumulations are determined through > integration with all intermediating communications tech). > > I am still not familiar with stiegler's work, though I have seen his > name mentioned many times in my travels (and here he is again!). > > My concept of value equations is a dimensional weighted sum of 'pure' > measures of value (not 'subjective Value' or the fictitious 'objective > Value', though these can be derived from pure value by inspection and > interpretation). These dimensions are measures of activities that increase > the probability of value creation, not the post facto priced exchange value > of whatever is produced, not the subjective experience of value of > participants. Exchange is a special event that triggers distribution of > whatever exchange value is offered (which is either an abstract value like > money or something of subjective value to the recipient such as reputation). > > The term 'value accounting' came up in convos of the SENSORICA mailing > list. I am not sure who named it but i found it to resonate deeply with the > conception of *net as a way to track relative value contributed. > > Much later Michel suggested 'contributory value accounting' as a topic > I should write about and I like that term very much as it describes quite > accurately the point of 'powernet' as it was conceived by myself and my > colleague Reg Cheramy in the late 90's. The motivation for my sticking the > wildcard symbol * in front instead of power is that any flow can be > directed, not just power. > > The new focus on the governance aspect evolved with my experiences > with SENSORICA and other value networks, who all ultimately hit governance > issues long before distribution of revenue questions. The notion of > decision making rights based on relative value contributed has always been a > part of powernet (the power part) but its importance and priority over the > revenue distribution piece has become clear over time and I coined the term > 'governance equation' to reflect the symmetry of this concept with the > 'value equation'. The value equation is better framed as a 'distribution > equation' for revenue (cash for now) as opposed to the governance equation > as a distribution equation for voting rights. One can see many flavors of > distribution equation to control various flows. > > I have never published formally and any ideas I have are a result of > my experiences in this world, and things I have read and of course how they > bounce off my unique existence. When the frog hits the water there is a > splash. There is no merit in it. > > I have never published and never researched what was already known in > the subject area, and so I cannot complain when someone says the wheel I > invented "from scratch" turns out to be highly derivative (what a shocker!). > Indeed I don't even care. The point is to get a working model of OVN's, so > we can all attribute better in the future. > > As a matter of history though I can say that stiegler has had no > direct influence on me (indirect..who knows?). > > /kdl > > On Dec 27, 2014 12:51 PM, "Tiberius Brastaviceanu" > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> I don't think it is accurate to say that Bernard Stiegler had a >> direct influence on the development of SENSORICA. I personally discovered >> him perhaps a year ago. >> >> The concepts and the language were developed in collaboration. >> >> The precursor of the OVN model is the "Discovery Network" model that >> I proposed in September 2010. The term used was value exchange system, >> instead of value accounting system. At this moment, the concept of value >> equation was not formed. As you can see in the document, the allocation of >> equity was governed by a set of rules through a mechanism of negotiation. >> >> The first document that described the OVN model is the Value System >> document. It was first created in April 2011. The expression valuation >> mechanism was used to name of the section that mentioned a mathematical >> formula for calculating fluid equity. So the idea of a mathematical formula, >> an equation, was there from the beginning. For an entire year, there were >> discussions between myself, Steve, Kurt and Bayle about how to calculate it. >> See the attached screenshot. >> >> I introduced the expression "value accounting system" in this doc, on >> March 02, 2012. >> >> On March 13, 2012 the expression "value equation" appears in the doc >> for the first time, in conjunction with a comment made by Kurt on the >> mailing list. The earliest occurrence of the expression "value equation" in >> SENSORICA's mailing list is in early September 2011, used by Kurt again. >> >> Kurt later proposed the concept of "governance equation". >> >> >> This is what I got doing my little investigation. Isn't it nice to >> have history recorded?! >> >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Michel Bauwens >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Interesting to know indeed if Stiegler's work has been influential >>> on the open value accounting idea >>> >>> you will have noticed it is mentioned in my annual review here, >>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Top_Ten_P2P_Trends_of_2014 >>> >>> Bernard: can you point us to english material on your work, >>> especially on your concept of the 'revenu contributif', which I would like >>> to give more support in the coming year ? >>> >>> for info on those who missed it: >>> http://p2pfoundation.net/What_the_P2P_Foundation_Did_in_2014 >>> >>> Michel >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]
>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Adding Michel to this message, because I want to broaden the >>>> question. >>>> I think the value equation might have some roots in Bernard >>>> Stiegler's >>>> concept of the economy of contribution. >>>> >>>> Do you all think this is accurate? Were Stiegler's ideas a direct >>>> influence on Sensorica, or more like an idea in the air like a >>>> wind-blown seed that falls on ready soil, or not in the picture? Or >>>> am >>>> I missing something else, or misunderstanding completely? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 8:12 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]
>>>> wrote: >>>> > I mean not only the name but also the idea. >>>> > >>>> > As far as I know, they both originated at Sensorica. Probably >>>> > with >>>> > you. Do you know different? >>>> > >>>> > I'm adding some background to our value equation tutorial and >>>> > incidental writings. So I guess the proper question is, how do >>>> > you >>>> > want to be cited? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >>> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan >>> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>> >>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; >>> http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>> >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> t!b! >> co-founder of SENSORICA, >> an open, decentralized and self-organizing >> value network (an open enterprise) >> >> founder of Multitude Project >> >> Google Profile >> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu >> Twitter @TiberiusB
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- t!b! co-founder of SENSORICA, an open, decentralized and self-organizing value network (an open enterprise)
founder of Multitude Project
Google Profile Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu Twitter @TiberiusB
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/