[Solar-general] (mas jugo :)[Fwd: [Team] “peace agreement” with SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs?]]
Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez
jucar en hipatia.info
Sab Ago 1 02:42:49 CEST 2009
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 09:03:26PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> Gracias por compartir, muy interesante la discusión ;-)
>
Bueno, dejate de agaradecerme. Parece una estrategia mas que un
agradecimiento.
De todos modos, por lo que aqui dice, tu has comprado espejos.
Para comprar espejos alguien tiene que vender espejos
O como con las palabras de Diego, estas nadando en la mugre.
Hasta que sigas en ese charco, se te vera sucio.
A esta altura te queda solo salir y enjabonarte.
y tal vez asi recuperaras tu piel tersa y suave de a.oliva.
No creo que rms con sus respuestas tu con tus escrituras actuaran de
jabon.
La frase de rms donde dice de "ignorar a menos que muchos ...." no
muestra un rms tan limpio.
z/j
> Sin embargo, hace falta éste correo. ¿Quizás no te lo han enviado?
>
> To: rms en gnu.org
> Cc: team en fsfla.org
> Subject: Re: [Team] “peace agreement” with
> SOLAR, Vía Libre, FSFs?
> From: Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva en fsfla.org>
> Organization: Free thinker, not speaking for FSF Latin America
>
> On Jul 30, 2009, Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva en fsfla.org> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 30, 2009, Richard Stallman <rms en gnu.org> wrote:
> >> They assume continuity which I personally dispute. How can we be held
> >> responsible and be required to make up for things that were done before
> >> we existed, before any of the current members joined the organization?
> >> Even more so when all the records of FSF de los Pampas were erased,
> >> and we effectively started from scratch in December 2006.
>
> >> Perhaps they do not realize that FSF LA effectively started from
> >> scratch in December 2006.
>
> > It seems very insane to me, but they seem quite set on that line of
> > reasoning.
>
> Turns out it actually makes sense :-(
>
> See, we haven't actually changed much of our site. The same documents
> published back then are still there, and quite prominent while at that.
> The initial declaration of intent, the mission, the goals drafted by the
> first organization, newsletters and all.
>
> That's because we made a decision back then to avoid the impression of
> discontinuity.
>
> With all this, any external observer, without the benefit of our
> knowledge about what happened, might reasonably arrive at the same
> conclusion. Heck, even our announcements say we started in 2005! We
> can't have it both ways.
>
>
> Now, most external observers, without all the baggage that they carry,
> might take a “oh, right, we made this decision, it seemed to make sense
> then, but we didn't know about all this baggage; can we please leave it
> behind?” at face value and leave it at that.
>
> But they've grown so suspicious and distrustful that they don't believe
> it, and they seem to take it as some kind of trick, to fool them again.
> It's perfectly understandable.
>
> So they demand some public declaration in which we repudiate our past
> and declare that we started anew back then. Diego suggested:
>
> "En el 2006 empezo una nueva etapa en la FSFLA y los actuales miembros
> repudiamos los hechos que dieron lugar a la anterior FSFLA, nos
> comprometemos a nunca mas promover exclusiones de algun tipo en la
> difusion del soft libre en america latina y a poner nuestro esfuerzo
> en la recuperacion del daño causado esperando con ello, entre otras
> cosas limpiar nuestro nombre".
>
> This wording makes me a bit uncomfortable, but there's nothing in it
> that I particularly disagree with it:
>
> - It is true that we started afresh then.
>
> - It is true that we set ourselves aside from earlier acts; heck, we
> don't even know about most of them
>
> - We're not in the business of excluding; when people are promoting
> Software Freedom, they're helping us advance our mission. However,
> this has to be worded very carefully to avoid setting up a trap for
> ourselves, that someone could later use to get us to do or not do
> things we ought to.
>
> - It's not clear how much effort would be involved in repairing the
> damage, so this might be overcommitment. Watch out for traps.
>
> - I don't like the fact that there's a need to clean up our name, but it
> is hard to believe that it's not there, so we might as well do
> something about it, or resign ourselves to its remaining there.
>
> Regardless, perhaps we need to renew our web site so as to reflect what
> we are today. I'm not suggesting that we remove or hide our history,
> but rather that we write down the chapters that followed, so that we
> don't present such outdated snapshots as if they were current.
>
> --
> Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/
> You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi
> Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member
> Free Software Evangelist Red Hat Brazil Compiler Engineer
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