[P2P-es] [P2P-F] P2P dual language - en dos idiomas

[Bernardo Gutiérrez]

Orsan

Please, dont send mails in English to p2p in Spanish, dont mix lists, that
is not a Netiquette practice. Some people are reclaiming. Copying the
message to close list as p2p official one is a wrong practice> our messages
wont arrive there. Next week you will read the FLOK offial version, with
some auto-critic
Thanks

Orsan

Por favor, no escribas a esta lista en inglés y no mezcles listas, no es
una práctica apropiada e la Netiqueta. Algunas personas están enfadadas.
Copiar mensajes a listas cerradas, como la de la p2p, tampoco es una buena
práctica> nuestros mensajes no llegarán. La semana que viene se publicará
el informe de FLOK, con algunos elementos auto-críticos

Gracias
Bernardo


2014-07-18 15:10 GMT-03:00 Quiliro Ordóñez Baca <quiliro en congresolibre.org>:

>
>
> El vie 18 jul 2014 12:43:25 ECT, Orsan Senalp escribió:
> > It May sound off the track, yet while I was checking FLOK management
> page, I did see list of experts and advisors and who suggested them. I saw
> that Daniel Vasquez did recommend as macro economic advisor famous ex head
> of IMF, later it's self-critical economist!! Can anyone confirm and explain
> what is the logic of appointing Joseph Stiglitz as an high level expert and
> advisor to a project like this, aiming Ecuador's transition to a FLOK
> society? For me these are kind of really problematic co-optative steps
> needs to be avoided and criticized. I have been waiting and waiting from
> Bernardo, Xabier and Daniel any kind of reaction or self-reflexive report,
> noting heard anything or am not yet aware of. Than I started to get
> suspicious are there  Conscious steps taken and are we being pulled in
> alternative p2p - commons Keynesian project? So partner state can be
> sounding very nice theory, yet at the end it can turn into they are state,
> some of us partners and business goes usual for the bi
> llions, and the commons.. What kind of consciousness and check and balance
> we will be able to build. Another initiative I found about is Global
> Marshall Plan initiative to which some of out dear friends got involved,
> under the UN framework promoting An idea of Commons Charters instead of
> Millennium Goals, which was scheduled to 2015. I again am not against
> involvement and engagement with the state to open, transform, and dissolve
> it from bottom to up, yet with giant capitalist partners like al gore, bill
> gates, bono, Soros, elite groups like club of Rome, club of Budapest, ... A
> child can guess where would the game end up! Do not want to judgmental but
> we have seen this movie many times, perfect ideas and hypotheses, communism
> itself may easily be spoiled. P2p and commons should be protected
> carefully...
> > Orsan
>
> Exactly that is what I have meant all this time. If we do not have very
> strong values and if we do not act in their line regardless of the
> temporary benefit we may achieve, the final result will be catastrophic
> even if the intentions are good. People will even call you as I was
> called by Bernardo "destructive, irresponsible, disrespectful and
> manipulative" and "trol". Similar adjectives were used against me by
> the other Spaniards. I do not understand why those words were used
> against me when the only things I did are: saying that using Twitter
> and Facebook must not be done in a project that defends the commons and
> translating Gordon's evaluation of FLOK which had its analysis of the
> underlying political arena. Perhaps Cook's report it is very
> speculative. But I would say it is very much close to the perspective I
> attained from my own participation from the start of the process until
> I was first censored and latter removed from all of FLOK processes.
>
> --
> Saludos libres,
> Quiliro Ordóñez
> 600 8579
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
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