<div dir="ltr">Orsan <div><br></div><div>Please, dont send mails in English to p2p in Spanish, dont mix lists, that is not a Netiquette practice. Some people are reclaiming. Copying the message to close list as p2p official one is a wrong practice> our messages wont arrive there. Next week you will read the FLOK offial version, with some auto-critic</div>
<div>Thanks<br></div><div><br></div><div>Orsan</div><div><br></div><div>Por favor, no escribas a esta lista en inglés y no mezcles listas, no es una práctica apropiada e la Netiqueta. Algunas personas están enfadadas. Copiar mensajes a listas cerradas, como la de la p2p, tampoco es una buena práctica> nuestros mensajes no llegarán. La semana que viene se publicará el informe de FLOK, con algunos elementos auto-críticos </div>
<div><br></div><div>Gracias<br>Bernardo</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-07-18 15:10 GMT-03:00 Quiliro Ordóñez Baca <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:quiliro@congresolibre.org" target="_blank">quiliro@congresolibre.org</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
El vie 18 jul 2014 12:43:25 ECT, Orsan Senalp escribió:<br>
<div class="">> It May sound off the track, yet while I was checking FLOK management page, I did see list of experts and advisors and who suggested them. I saw that Daniel Vasquez did recommend as macro economic advisor famous ex head of IMF, later it's self-critical economist!! Can anyone confirm and explain what is the logic of appointing Joseph Stiglitz as an high level expert and advisor to a project like this, aiming Ecuador's transition to a FLOK society? For me these are kind of really problematic co-optative steps needs to be avoided and criticized. I have been waiting and waiting from Bernardo, Xabier and Daniel any kind of reaction or self-reflexive report, noting heard anything or am not yet aware of. Than I started to get suspicious are there Conscious steps taken and are we being pulled in alternative p2p - commons Keynesian project? So partner state can be sounding very nice theory, yet at the end it can turn into they are state, some of us partners and business goes usual for the bi<br>
llions, and the commons.. What kind of consciousness and check and balance we will be able to build. Another initiative I found about is Global Marshall Plan initiative to which some of out dear friends got involved, under the UN framework promoting An idea of Commons Charters instead of Millennium Goals, which was scheduled to 2015. I again am not against involvement and engagement with the state to open, transform, and dissolve it from bottom to up, yet with giant capitalist partners like al gore, bill gates, bono, Soros, elite groups like club of Rome, club of Budapest, ... A child can guess where would the game end up! Do not want to judgmental but we have seen this movie many times, perfect ideas and hypotheses, communism itself may easily be spoiled. P2p and commons should be protected carefully...<br>
> Orsan<br>
<br>
</div>Exactly that is what I have meant all this time. If we do not have very<br>
strong values and if we do not act in their line regardless of the<br>
temporary benefit we may achieve, the final result will be catastrophic<br>
even if the intentions are good. People will even call you as I was<br>
called by Bernardo "destructive, irresponsible, disrespectful and<br>
manipulative" and "trol". Similar adjectives were used against me by<br>
the other Spaniards. I do not understand why those words were used<br>
against me when the only things I did are: saying that using Twitter<br>
and Facebook must not be done in a project that defends the commons and<br>
translating Gordon's evaluation of FLOK which had its analysis of the<br>
underlying political arena. Perhaps Cook's report it is very<br>
speculative. But I would say it is very much close to the perspective I<br>
attained from my own participation from the start of the process until<br>
I was first censored and latter removed from all of FLOK processes.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Saludos libres,<br>
Quiliro Ordóñez<br>
600 8579<br>
<br>
<br><br>
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